[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything
" Ok, so benefit is, that damage is not all cold that helps in cases where mobs get extra cold resist. But I still don't understand what Trinity does. "Icestorm + 16% + CtF + Trinity = 16% more dmg + 31% more dmg + 30% more dmg + 17 Pen. Total 77% more damage + 17% penetration" 16% from getting Arcane Surge from elsewhere. 31% from CtF Cold Damage as Extra FIre Damage. Few increased damage mods that don't really matter. Where does the 30% more damage and 17% penetration come? Its looks like those are the bonuses you get from Trinity. 3%*10 from having 50 Resonance and 17% penetration from 25+ Resonance. But the way Trinity is worded it should not give those buffs at all. Since Fire damage is the highest damage, Trinity gives Cold and Lightning Resonance but no Fire Resonance at all. 3% more damage per LOWEST Resonance, and since Fire Resonance is 0 all the time, that is 0% more damage. 17% penetration while EACH Resonance is AT LEAST 25. But once again, Fire Resonance is 0, so no Penetration here. | |
" This a point that lots of players dont get about Trinity. To have all 3 ressonances you just need 2 elements well balanced. In my case, most of my Flat damage is Fire but 1x blanketed snow passive + bonechill increased cold damage taken by chill effect, is enought to make cold damage hit almost same amount then i have 50 for all 3 ressonances all the time! Making trinity gives full effect all the time! Since all 3 resonances are at 50, the lowest is 50... so 30% more damage + 17% Elemental Penetration! Follow an old video from 3.17 doing maven, take a look at trinity buff. On 3.17 was my first time trying Cold to fire + Trinity. Now on 3.18 i'm much stronger, and made some improvements on damage and tankness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH_SvZTthd8 If you pay attention the damage was enought to skip the second memory game xD Seems weird... but works very well Last edited by whiterockxx on Jul 16, 2022, 12:58:51 AM
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sorry, duplicated post :(
Last edited by whiterockxx on Jul 16, 2022, 12:47:20 AM
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" Ok, so this is probably why it works. Damage ranges. Cold damage (per hit) is 22201 to 31081 and fire damage is 35974 to 50398. Trinity probably counts the Cold damage before CtF conversion, so to Trinity Cold hits 44k-62k and Fire hits 36k-50k. Sometimes it is more Cold than Fire and sometimes more Fire than Cold, and with getting so many shards/s, it is very likely to get it both ways. PoB however only counts the average damage, so it doesn't count you getting the buff. | |
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As you see now, this setup is more than the eyes can see. I'm really enjoing this setup, this league i started with it and its was a very nice start to me.
Probably full cold Icestorm and Arcane Surge linked to vortex may have a better damage output, but i'm not sure, because since we use Frostbite + Ele weakness + Cold Exposure + The wise oak + Blanketed snow + cold pen from jewels, the monsters resist was alerdy decreased to a point where Awakened Cold Pen dont do much. I felt it and get worse with low end gear! I've played both setups. I play with The whispering ice since 3.11 and every league i try new things to improve it. I really hope that players try it and bring new ideas/tweeks, to keep improving our Whispering Ice gameplay! And a little buff from GGG's side would be nice... Since this build need much effort to feel good and do all content. A little love would be nice! |
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" Keep in mind that bosses start with 50% resistances and have 66% less cure effect. Your setup comes out with them having -1% cold resistance (and 0% fire resistance) after all the curses and penetration. So the 40% penetration from ACP would still be 40% more damage. Without CtF that is. Low level gear would probably have less Cold Penetration, making ACP even stronger increase. Edit: All the that (and the calculations before) were with flasks not active, but should work pretty much the same. Last edited by Cjin on Jul 16, 2022, 1:57:54 AM
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As you can check at PoE wiki, more the resistences aproach to zero, less effective the penetration become.
https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Resistance_penetration  I learned it back in the past probably on 3.12 when i replaced Inspiration for Awakened Cold Pen, and discovered that was a bad move! 35% more damage from Inspiration delivery much more damage then 45% pen.(on that patch, the skill numbers was higer) if the monster resistences are zero or negative. In fact, the itens dont matter, since the gear dont do nothing about monster resists, only the level/quality if Frostbite + Ele weakness. Then if the monster resist is zero, Awakened Cold Pen do almost no damage increase. But anything that do % more damage or flat damage will be much more valuable. Last edited by whiterockxx on Jul 16, 2022, 2:24:00 AM
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" Lets say you hit for 10k CP gives 40% penetration. Scenario 1: enemy has 50% resistance. (before CP) Your damage goes from 5k to 9k. 4k extra damage, 80% increase. Scenario 2: enemy has 0% resistance. (before CP) Your damage goes from 10k to 14k. 4k extra damage, 40% increase. Scenario 3: enemy has -60% resistance. (before CP) Your damage goes from 16k to 20k. 4k extra damage, 25% increase. It it the same flat amount of increase, just smaller % increase as the number you are comparing it to increases. Main point is, that the penetration does not stop when enemy has 0% resistances left, it goes to negatives. I think cap that way is -200%, but you are not gonna hit it. I think the image you linked is little misleading. The damage increase is still pretty good even at negative resistances, but because it starts so huge increase when enemy has high resistance the image makes it look like it is low. Last edited by Cjin on Jul 16, 2022, 2:39:52 AM
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As I understood the penetration is not aditive, but is multiplicative.
So if you have 40% pen and the target has 50% resist, you'll deal 30% less damage. It's 40% of 50 that is 20%. So only 20 from 50% resist will be bypassed. Otherwise there was no need to exist penetration, since you can have the -X% resist attribute it would be redundant 2 different properties doing the same thing. Last edited by whiterockxx on Jul 16, 2022, 4:45:05 AM
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" It is additive. You can see it in the picture you linked earlier. At 0% you get 10% increase and keep getting increase even at negative resistances. The picture actually has little error, the damage increase should be 10 times higher than what is in the picture. The difference between -X% resist and resist pen happens if you have enemy with over 75% resist. Lets say 100% Monsters are affected by the 75% max res. If you have 40% res pen, monster end up with min(75%,100%)-40% = 35% resistance. If you have -40% resist, monster ends up with min(100%-40%,75%) = 60% resistance. If you had 20/20 split, monster would end up with 55% resistance. |
