Balance in Path of Exile: Blight

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nadakuu wrote:

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Klavarnae wrote:

Just remember GGG. For every one person complaining, there's 100s(or more) of people who welcome these changes, just who don't care to post about it.

just remember ggg for every one person who thinks this is good for the game do to blind devotion - there are 1000 other players who question letting the janator make balancing decisions.

It's not blind devotion as you say, these things needed to change (I mainly play spellcaster as well, so the mana things affect me).

IMHO, the drop rate for league specifics should be even lower to nerf the HH drops even more.

The point of nerfing trickster every single league to reach 0,1%? Well your doing great so far...

The point of nerfing trickster every single league to reach 0,1%? Well your doing great so far...

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Rakiii wrote:

Although you´re right that it´s not as easy as getting warlords mark and be done I have never had problem to lay mines each costing over 150 mana with mana regen and good mana pool (+ using mana flask occasionally).

No one said anything about Warlord's Mark; that nerf was a league ago and it wasn't that consequential for most spell casters. At least not for self-casting which relied on other sources of mana leech.

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Rakiii wrote:

You will need to find new ways how to deal with your "mana problem".

One flask + new cluster might help
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Lavianga%27s_Spirit
.. also ..
A variety of new passive tree clusters have been added, including one that improves mana and Arcane Surge, one that gives curse bonuses and a way to recover mana after hitting or killing cursed enemies, and one that grants Spell Damage based on your maximum mana, up to a limit.

So, lose 1 flask slot that could be used for utility AND waste additional passive points to solve a problem that didn't exist until now?

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Rakiii wrote:

Just an extra tip for you:)
If you play such crazy mana hungry builds think about using Blood magic in combination with life leech and don´t care about mana anymore ...

Listen, no offense, but if you suggest using Blood Magic for your main skill, you have no clue about proper POE builds. Even if this really really bad idea worked for some very niche builds, the mana "fix" that GGG proposes now affects A HUGE number of mainstream skills/builds. Not something that maybe 0.0001% of people play.

Go play something as basic as an Arc build with Blood Magic and life leech and tell me how it went.

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Rakiii wrote:

You can ignore mana problem with ES leech here (while having EB). I am not telling it´s the best thing how to handle mana problem but that´s how things work now.

You still didn't explain how MoM fits here. I am suspecting you said MoM/EB because that's what you saw other people talk about but don't really understand what each keystone does and their purpose in practice.

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Rakiii wrote:

I have never said that. It´s just your imagination.
Although I am not satisfied how GGG handles balance among different builds (selfcasted, traps/mines, trigger etc) it has nothing to do with mana leech being an easy recovery mechanic.
Btw trap / mine builds couldn´t leech since beginning.

Traps, mines, totems, minions, neither have the huge mana costs of self-casting and as consequence they don't have the same mana sustain problems to deal with.

Until now self-spellcasting builds have sacrificed some passives, gem setups, maybe even an aura slot to ensure a decent mana flow. That should've been enough.

The problem you seem to ignore here is that the vast majority of self-casting builds were not even remotely overpowered. In fact they're probably played by a really small percentage of the player base as every other playstyle (totems/traps/triggered spells, etc.) was superior in many ways.

So what does GGG do about that situation? They figure out self-casting builds need to dedicate EVEN MORE passives, flasks and gems just to be playable

You don't have to explain all the ways to get back enough mana sustain, I'm well aware of all of them. The problem is why do we have to do that? Were self-casting builds so over-powered they needed some nerfs? Because this is a nerf! Every single resource you have to sacrifice now to offset the new mana "rules" that GGG envisioned is a resource that you don't use for DPS or defenses. This is what I mean about opportunity cost, not pros and cons...

If Righteous Fire will have mechanical canges, CAN WE FINALY SEE AT LEAST AN APROXIMATED DPS OF IT insted of an empty tab in the character screen???

HH nerf when? Or deleted?

Triple options menu for lab enchants when? (like unveil menu).

I feel the new mana flask stat should be implicit to the flask.

Since the mana nerf you already are losing a flask slot to the mana flask. AND you only get 1/2 stats on it. Because you need one to make the thing usable.

I miss warlord mark for spells. Casters already have weak defenses. Forcing mana investment makes them even weaker.

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Navandis wrote:

So, lose 1 flask slot that could be used for utility AND waste additional passive points to solve a problem that didn't exist until now?

Using mana leech was an easy solution but you have still other choices how to solve mana recovery. It´s about your preferences.

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Navandis wrote:

You still didn't explain how MoM fits here. I am suspecting you said MoM/EB because that's what you saw other people talk about but don't really understand what each keystone does and their purpose in practice.

You´re spending ES instead of mana while having EB allocated and you can leech ES via ES leech support. MoM is usually used here as an extra effective HP.
It fits the theme here or what are you asking?

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Navandis wrote:

Traps, mines, totems, minions, neither have the huge mana costs of self-casting and as consequence they don't have the same mana sustain problems to deal with.
Until now self-spellcasting builds have sacrificed some passives, gem setups, maybe even an aura slot to ensure a decent mana flow. That should've been enough.
You don't have to explain all the ways to get back enough mana sustain, I'm well aware of all of them. The problem is why do we have to do that? Were self-casting builds so over-powered they needed some nerfs? Because this is a nerf! Every single resource you have to sacrifice now to offset the new mana "rules" that GGG envisioned is a resource that you don't use for DPS or defenses. This is what I mean about opportunity cost, not pros and cons...

Traps and mines (not all of them) have very high mana cost since you can spam them without any limits (CD on traps has been removed) and I have played many trap/mines builds.
I have seen such overreaction after WM change and what? Nothing happened. It´s not game over just adapt yourself and find new ways.

"We've made adjustments to a large variety of unique items based on their use. For example Poet's Pen's triggered spell now has a cooldown of 0.15 seconds, down from 0.25 seconds."

Ok... Who thought this was a good idea?! Desecrate had it's CD removed, pretty sure max corpse will drop to 9. Volatile dead is still a thing.

I really appreciate the changes to unveiled mods as it felt like you had to specifically grind Syndicate hard to get those certain crafts. I'd log on once a day solely to do the Syndicate daily to progress on crafts. I also appreciate both the referenced summoner and poison buffs. I haven't played either of those types of builds in POE. I can say that I traded with fewer summoners this now previous league than in the past which made me question if it was viable to play those builds.

I really like the changes to the Assassin ascendancy, it looks like it could be very good. I understand the nerf's to Slayer and Berserker, though I can't help feel it is a little much and maybe not quite the right focus. I really can't complain because Slayer did feel broken playing it the entire league.

What can I say about the Cyclone nerf, I think we all knew it was coming.
Personally I didn't think the nerf would look this bad on paper, but it does. I'm just going to have to see how it feels to figure out if it's still viable. AOE on Cyclone never mattered that much too me personally as long as it can clear mobs at a decent pace.

My criticism is more towards the mana cost of melee skills specifically in a six link set-up. In Legion the cost of Cyclone within a six link set-up was virtually free as far as mana cost. All I needed was one -9 to mana cost of skills craft and I didn't have to worry about anything, literally my mana never moved. Skills like Earthquake, Sunder, Tectonic Slam, etc. literally cost more than five times the mana in a six link than Cyclone. I'd rather have seen the focus of balancing on mana cost of melee skills, than the damage and AOE.

I think balance is different in everyone's eyes. I've only ever played melee builds in POE and that's nothing against spell casters. That's just a personal preference and I'll continue primarily playing melee builds. I appreciated Legion because it put melee at the forefront and I had the opportunity to truly do end game content for the first time with a variety of melee skills. The Legion content itself was a little lack luster, I'm hoping Blight offers a little bit more variety in the way of end/late game content. If not, you'll likely find me in the mines.