[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

I think with new changes Aul's Uprising for Determination is a way to go, or at least for Discipline =\

Been playing some sort of Arakaali's Fang build since way back when.

My thoughts on this patch after gem info,

HoP is definitely not feasible unless we attain more invested into mana reservation but as of now, the nerfs were too great mana-wise.

We don't know Reaper damage info, but assuming it's a solid skill, it's probably feasible to use it and just take the 39% less damage on spiders and dropping HoP. That'll let us run an aura or two to try to compensate the lost damage on spiders if we needed. It's looking like Impale won't be too great on this build though.

We also have the option of the other new minion, Absolution. Again, there's no info on damage yet however it may be OK as a HoP replacement. Only downside is their innate phys to lightning conversion.

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AhFoik wrote:

We also have the option of the other new minion, Absolution. Again, there's no info on damage yet however it may be OK as a HoP replacement. Only downside is their innate phys to lightning conversion.

Absolution also only has 3 Sentinels instead of 4 so hopefully their base damage is much higher than the Sentinels of Purity.

We just have to find some damage some where in the build, because I think our defenses made it through the nerfs pretty well.

oh dear what a mess! POB just got updated.

Not only is mana a total disaster as we expected, but my total DPS (spiders and sentinels) dropped from 5.9m to 3.4m (impale version) and will drop significantly more if and when I sort out the mana issues.

This is not going to be easy. God I hope Absolution has decent damage.

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

oh dear what a mess! POB just got updated.

Not only is mana a total disaster as we expected, but my total DPS (spiders and sentinels) dropped from 5.9m to 3.4m (impale version) and will drop significantly more if and when I sort out the mana issues.

This is not going to be easy. God I hope Absolution has decent damage.

oh this is really ugly.

The only way I could squeeze in the 6 link HOP with my other auras was to drop Flesh and Stone. :(

My DPS dropped from 5.9m to 3m. I can gain a little DPS back because I no longer need Rotten Claws and can replace this with some other cluster that will help DPS.

For you guys running the Bleed version, can you let me know what your DPS is after you adjust for the mana nerf?

I have some mana left over now because I had to remove Flesh and Stone. I may see if any other aura is useful that I can plug in else I will make a tree adjustment and crank up clarity to use up most of the mana pool to maximize our armor and ES.

Sorry, does this 3.15 nerf affect standard too?

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AndyLovesHisBge wrote:

For you guys running the Bleed version, can you let me know what your DPS is after you adjust for the mana nerf?

It's looking abysmal unless I did not properly check the things for DPS. The build I played in Ritual had about 800k DPS per sentinel (with its Crusade Slams) and now it's looking about 437k ish. I think their Default Attack and Slam dropped around 100k-200k DPS each but I might be misremembering it.

I looked at an older post of mine and I was wrong. The numbers were 402k (default)/269k(slam)/544k (crusade slam) (Ritual) versus 321k (default)/263k(slam)/437k(crusade slam) in 3.15.


On other issues, mana reservation seems like it could be resolved with an Aul's Uprising (either determination or discipline) but Astramentis is such a good budget option and provides the much needed dexterity for the build. There's always Coming Calamity if we want to switch to a hybrid life/ES version of the build but that would require possible drastic tree and gear changes.

I won't comment on other minion skills since I don't have knowledge on them.

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ericng010 wrote:

Sorry, does this 3.15 nerf affect standard too?

yes.

available for 3.15 sir ?

Hello my friends! I took a deep dive this morning and would like to share what I have found. If you have any feedback in terms of improvements or where I might have made a mistake I would appreciate it.

TLDR: Skip down to the POB

===========================

* I did a direct, apples for apples compare of the Impale version and the Bleed version for 3.15 with the massive nerfs across the board. The Impale version is still giving more damage after the nerfs. However there may be tricks I don't know to improve the Bleed version so if anyone see better DPS in the Bleed version, please post your POB!!!

* I can not find any way to keep Flesh and Stone in the build, the mana cost is just too high.

* When removing Flesh and Stone(linked with maim) we gain extra mana to use, two sockets and 1 extra point on the tree. Here is how I compensated:

- Since we have lost maim via Flesh and Stone, I put Maim support on a 4 link with Cyclone. So Cyclone is now supported by Maim, Fortify and Culling Strike

- The extra point gained from the tree is that we don't need Sovereignty any more. I used that extra point towards a damage node on the tree.

- The remaining extra socket is used for Vitality which helps our ES regeneration to fight off DOT. Raise Vitality to level 20 and then raise Clarity to a point where you have the least possible mana left over that lets you comfortably run the build.

* While Impale Support got nerfed for damage, it did actually pick up a small buff that we can use to our benefit. Impale chance was improved to the point where we no longer need Rotten Claws in the cluster jewel. I am still looking for the best replacement but I think Renewel will be pretty good in this spot since our spiders are always on full health.



I put together a new POB up to level 97. I removed all awakened gems from the set up for now. Note that the awakened gems got whacked hard in the nerf so even when you can afford these, your DPS is not going to go up much. :(

Please note the following: There is one absolute must have item for this all to work. You need to have the Memory Vault helmet enchantment that lowers the HOP reservation cost. Until you can obtain that, you will have to shut off determination and lower HOP down to a 5 link. The mana cost increases this league are just insane :(

The good news is that the defenses still look fantastic. Every one has to deal with the flask nerfs so there is not much we can do about that, but our armor is still strong, which means our key defensive mechanic of recovery on block still functions very well. After upgrading gear, ES of 9k+ still looks very viable too.

I hope some one finds the information above, and POB below, useful. Please let me know any feedback you might have as I am sure there are many more improvements that can be made that I overlooked.


3.15 Impale Version, First Pass: https://pastebin.com/GDfa56CK


Since the mana was such a nightmare, I am going to take a dive into doing a full replacement of HOP with Absolution (it functions relatively the same as HOP). Since Absolution is a spell, we free up a ton of mana room from not needing the HOP aura any more. But it will only make sense if the damage is better so I just need to wait until the data is released in POB in a few days.