[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

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wai325 wrote:

So I could use some help with my gear to see if I can boost it up anymore, I'm pretty satisfied with it right now, I'm still trying to get some more damage

I swap out deathmark on spiders when theres alot of random ads in boss room and melee splash.
Max Resis on everything
Chaos resis is at 25%
Chaos Dot resis is at 53%

I'm basically capped out on Reserving mana and HP,
only 36 out of 1831 hp
only 152 out of 5087 mana
i have 8705 es

So I couldnt run anything that reserve more mana so I run Punishment and spirit offering on my CWDT, not sure how effective Punishment is for spiders, If theres a better gem i can throw on it then Please suggest,
I was thinking of dropping it for a movement gem like Flame dash to jump over rifts.
Flask Wise I didnt know what to do because I tried the Sorrow + Hp flask but my ES basically never moved when I actually needed it to. I only died from DOTs and the Life flask didnt seem to do anything.

My hope right now is to replace my rare ring with another Chaos resist ring and have the energy shield %+ with a socket so I could throw the movement skill on that.

For a more damage option check my character iCyberMorph, the way I have it set up does significantly more damage without sacrificing too much, I still have 8.2k ES.

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lewo wrote:

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cbaist4488 wrote:

hey can someone critique my build? im pretty close to finished at lvl 93, i feel like i just need a better beltt/ few jewels/ and another jewel slot/ plus 21/20's

pastebin: https://pastebin.com/cDiqTRtf

i feel like my damage output isnt where it should be right now

Using a despair on hit gloves will increase your damage

İf you can not afford a despair on hit gloves.

this flask will suffice.

instead of shield charge/faster attacks, I use flame dash and in the open slot i have precision watcher's eye, gives more attack speed which helps to stack virulance faster.

Lastly the biggest upgrade will come from your herald of agony 21/20.

thankyou for the feedback! ill totally overlooked the shaper gloves implicit XD

Just here to say wow, great build! Thank you.

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Klatt3n wrote:

I'm level 89 at this build now and felt like I might've needed it before I got the Kiloava Timeless Jewel and Blue Nightmare Jewel. I made it without the flask, but I could've used some regen every now and then before I got those two. After, I haven't needed any extra ES regen at all. I'd rather pick up another utility flask.

I have another question though : )


Your PoB still varies a bit from the guide. I feel really fucking tanky right now, only the occasional oneshot from Meta bosses, but still feel like I lack a bit of DPS. I compared our PoBs and your Agony Crawler DPS is like nearly a million more than mine (~300k at my profile and ~1.18m at yours) Nearly 300k of it is from Spirit Offering. I assume you advice picking this up? I couldn't find anything about it in the written guide - maybe I'm blind, but I looked around and word searched for it.

If anyone with a strong HoA-minion could take a look at my profile and tell me where I should start at making this thing a bit stronger, I'd greatly appreciate it. Swapping out Vicious Projectiles with Deathmark would probably be a start..

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Klatt3n/characters

I checked your character and he was looking good to me, maybe the issue is with the Virulence sustain. I updated the guide to include Resolute Technique, since we were only around 90% chance to hit, but apart from that, you should be good :) Maybe you changed your character since when you posted your message, I only looked at it just now,, sorry for the delay!

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Sevreth72 wrote:

First, thank you very much for the guide. Just started u my first Templar!.

Question. In the leveling section for the skill tree you mention "Start by grabbing Spiritual Command (minion damage) and Sacrifice (minion life regen)." However in the PoB link Spiritual command doesn't appear until the lvl60 section. Do we try and get it first or hold off a bit?

Thank you!

You're right, it was a mistake on my part, I updated the PoB. Sorry!

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passiontrix wrote:

Okay leveled this today, current gear above. Level 75 at the moment and destroying awaken 8 content maps/guardians (haven't tried Sirus yet).

Few stupid question:
- On bosses what's the best way to keep spiders up mid fight incase spiders die, do you guys just pop Desecrate a bunch then pop Jar then cyclone to kill worms?
- Does #% Reduced amount recovered on Jar matter at all?
- OP has DOFL on Fang for swap in guide, but in POB it has Melee Phys swap for Melee Splash, which is correct?
- Can someone explain how Sorrow of the Divine works? Just looking for some clarification on : "Life Recovery from Flasks also applies to Energy Shield during Flask Effect"
Does it mean it'll act similar to a Bubbling/Seething flask but go directly into our ES since we have almost no life?

edit// This build is insane

I will answer your questions one by one:

- During bosses, what I do is desecrate two or three times under my feet, then pop either one flask if I don't have a lot left, or two if I still have enough, and cyclone the worms. If you're scared that your Crawler or spiders might kill the worms, you can use Deathmark on the boss and do all this far from it, or you can despawn your remaining spiders by unequipping and requipping Arakaali's Fang. Try it out and see what works best for you :)

- Yes, #% reduced flask charges used kind of matters on flasks, since it allows you to use them more during boss fights. Plus, they're pretty cheap, even with a good roll, so I recommend getting a good roll. :)

- Indeed, that was a mistake on my part, I corrected it. But both gems grant the same damage, so you can use the one you prefer.

- I've never personally used Sorrow of the Divine with a Bubbling/Seething flask, so I don't know. It's try it out when I can. :)

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haitike wrote:

why sacrifice in lategame? Spiders and the agony crawler are untargetable.

Just for the life regen. :)

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Discosamba wrote:

So I'm still trying to find my way out with gems and auras:

3 link on Spider is the best way to go by far

However the Crawler gets a huuuuge boost by removing Feeding Frenzy for Empower 3 and 4. Also you should try to replace Pierce for Vicious Projectile as the dps boost is insane. From 1m to 2.2m in my case. Pierce is overkilling you clear: i mean the spiders does this really well in any way without the need of the crawler..

The problem is the mana reserved, we miss 1%... I browsed the Aspect of the Spider and it adds really poor dps.. I mean the cost (25% mana) is too much.

I'll search for more after new eve dinner but here are some thoughts :)

Indeed, Feeding Frenzy doesn't grant a lot of damage, but the huge pro is that it grants great damage to the spiders too, so it's a shared buff. I like using that gem, but if you'd rather use something else and focus more on the Crawler than the spiders, you can do it :)

Concerning Aspect of the Spider, it grants 9% more damage according to PoB; if it's not enough to be worth it for you, you can take it off to use other, more mana-heavy support gems for your Crawler :) Like before, I settled for Pierce and Aspect of the Spider because I wanted to benefit both the spiders and the Crawler, but if you want to focus more on the Crawler, you can absolutely do it!

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ffsfiftyseven wrote:

Here's an interesting way of playing this build CI and NOT losing much armor or energy shield. You can pretty much wear dream fragments on your feet:

Rolls are not perfect, still gives more ES than dream fragments itself. It opens up a ring slot for second circle of nostalgia. If we go with double 40% reduced mana reservation and take additional mana reservation nodes near CI & near scion start we can fit in determination (enlighten 3 required).
Capping resists is a little tough, but i think it's worth it. Of course we can go with haste for more dps instead of more armor.
Moving forward we get two corrupted jewels with -1% mana reservation each, upgrade to an enlighten 4 and squeeze in a war banner! Not sure if worth it dps-wise, but the possibility is there.

Original LL version might benefit from this; i'm not sure if there'r enough skill points and/or gem slots though to expand on auras.

I have to say I'm really not a fan of that alternative... You lose a lot of armour, you lose some spell block, some ES, and a lot of skill points to grab CI... If you really want to do it, you can, but in my opinion it's not worth it :/

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Boltonsquads wrote:

Are the gems from your PoB Correct or your guide both of them are different.

Thanks

That was a mistake on my part, I updated both the guide and the PoB to have the same gems. :)

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jdilly23 wrote:

Not really sure what I'm doing wrong but the build seems to not be tanky at all and has horrible sustain ontop of pretty mediocre damage.

Its as if Aegis does nothing and I just slowly die every time I fight anything besides trash. I went with all the expensive options and still have tons of currency to invest if I need to buy more/different gear.

I must be missing something - here is my gear and my profile is public if you'd like to look at my tree:

Have a kiloava jewel, blue nightmare, and healthy mind as well, but no watchers eye yet.

I see you deleted your character, I'm sorry that the build didn't work for you, but according to your items, if you followed the skill tree, you should've been beefy as hell... I don't know enough to find out what went wrong, sorry :/

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lewo wrote:

Today I was really lucky and got a really good crusader orb exalted result :)

Just curios what do you think of "deflection" annointment on the amulet, it will give us max block chance meele/spell and ranged attacks and some armour.

Nice belt! :D

As for Deflection, in a past version of the guide I was using it, but I changed to Tempest Shield because it allows us to get much better passives. But if you prefer not using Tempest Shield, you can grab Deflection (though I don't recommend it, passives like Soul of Steel or Adamant are really strong)

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TheScalpel wrote:

Another tidbit that made me a bit tankier (or more mindless) that i couldnt see highlighted in the guide, get a jewel with the "corrupted blood cannot be infliced on you" corruption. Currently damage over time is the only thing that is even close to killing me (and luckily i am getting more used to actually watching my ES bar), and this has cut reliance on it down by a lot.

If you want to do awakener/sirius, this corruption is almost mandatory anyway and pretty much trivializes the fight for us (outside of storm management). For my first fight i actually got a useless jewel just with this corruption, and heck it never left that slot till i bought something with actual stats on it (and the same corruption).

You're absolutely right! I will add that to the guide right away. Thanks :)

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Boltonsquads wrote:

I believe "150% Increased Molten Shell Buff Effect" is also pretty good, personally I'm using Vaal Molten shell, mainly for Delves but it's insanely strong.

Indeed, it's a good idea! I will add it to the guide, thank you for the idea :)

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Boltonsquads wrote:

Is Pierce really worth it, sure it would increase clear a little however Vicious Projectiles give so much more damage?

You're right, VP would give more damage, but it also reserves much more mana. If you want to focus more on the Crawler than the spider, you can use VP and remove Aspect of the Spider, but in my opinion it's better to have Pierce, the total DPS (of spiders + crawler) is higher that way. But to each their own!

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Bezmageddon wrote:

Never played this or even seen a build like this before looks super cool and what i read on comment hoping its all true this build will get my map and end game bosses killed right? Also is the pob the lastest version only the gem set up on some other players items and on main screen are different?

I fixed the gem issue, it was a mistake on my part. Sorry!

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AcesCracked wrote:

Hi currently helping my buddy try to figure out why we cant get aspect of spiders HOA Discipline up at same time.

Reserves a total of 102%

We are taking all the nodes and have the 40% hoa ring too.

If we drop to a 5l armor and lose the mana multiplier from 6l it works is the spider from belt only an option with 5l HOA?

You should be able to use Aspect of the Spider with your 6L, can you send me a PoB of his build so I can take a look?

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neopetss wrote:

hey, i have a question. If i use the blessing of chayula for the blue dream, it will make the blue dream 100% become the blue nightmare ? Thanks alot.

Yep, it will!

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NHPenis wrote:

Is Time of Need really the best ascendancy choice? Wouldn't Unwaivering Faith be better?

Time of need, on top of quality of life, brings you some regen which is really life-saving in fights that have damage over time, like Uber Elder or Park boss. :) I highly recommend going Time of Need, but you can try playing without it if you want!

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insangel0001 wrote:

Should i link Desecrate or Spirit Offering with CWDT?

I recommend casting both of them yourself. It saves a socket, casts more often, and most importantly, casting yourself allows you to make sure it's always up when you need it. Plus, we're tanky, so we don't mind stopping now and then to cast a spell :)

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Yomir_The_Mighty wrote:

Does rumi's do anything as a flask for this build? Thanks!
Also what is the best secondary roll on circle of nostalgia? To me it looks like the chaos resistance is amazing for this builds major weakness (chaos damage)

Indeed, chaos res would be the best secondary roll in my opinion. :)

I'm absolutely loving this build. The tankiness is very high, the single target damage is high, the clearspeed is pretty good with shield charge, though I just replaced my gloves with a corrupted despair on hit pair and now my gems are a bit messed up until I can sort out all my sockets again. My next major upgrade is soul of steel anoint and catalysing my rings, which should happen today. After that I'll be looking for a little more dps...

Has anyone investigated Awakened gems for this build? I'm particularly interested in boosting the spider damage further. I'm going to try and simulate in PoB but to be honest I find that program pretty bad for my adhd - it's like my eyes slip right off it - so if anyone has already figured out the best options I'm all ears.

I figured out my confusion with PoB and this build. The sort by DPS doesn't seem to work with spiders, though it does with the crawler. Here's my thoughts on gems.

You probably want Withering Touch and Deathmark because of how they work and affect the playstyle. The damage wither gives is insane with high wither stacks, which synergizes extremely well with Deathmark on bosses. So you probably also want Deathmark. Deathmark affects the playstyle of the build heavily, particularly letting you focus bosses better, and resummon spiders in single target situations if half of them despawn. I wouldn't give up either of these gems having tested without them.

So that leaves one slot. Clearing without melee splash feels real bad. So you need to be able to socket a red gem there. Awakened Melee Splash is a straight swap for Melee Splash, isn't too expensive, and increases the AOE a lot. I expect it'll help to reduce numbers of stragglers when shield charging fast. Awakened Unbound Ailments is similarly cheap, adds a LOT of poison damage, and would be a good single target gem swap. But it's blue! Awakened Melee Physical damage is a good red swap but it's about 11ex, so that's a little high budget when there's a better way to accomodate a blue/red swap. My current Fang is corrupted to 30% qual with beastcrafting, just to juice my cyclone dps slightly to help keep spiders up. I don't think this is particularly worth it, frankly. But using Vorici to put a few white sockets on is a great idea, and would let you easily swap between Awakened Melee Splash and Awakened Unbound Ailments. This is my next dps project.

I have linked my items and my profile is public - here's my current planned upgrade order, and I'd love it if anyone could give me a sanity check here. Catalysts are quite expensive, so I have moved them lower. I'm running Precision to use up some more reservation for a slight increase in clearspeed/dps on evasive enemies instead of Clarity which does, well, nothing for us really until the Watcher's Eye mod.

1 - anoint amulet. I am thinking Aligned Spirits for the low cost and boost to both defense and offense. Sort out sockets again (just made some upgrades and lost shield charge - will fix)
2 - White socket(s) Arakaali's - edit and also fix flasks. I think a chaos, fire, and lightning will do better for endgame than my current QS/Silver/Granite.
3 - kind of at the same time, Awakened Melee Splash & Unbound Ailments, lvl 21 HoAg gem, and some other misc high level gems where I can afford or PoB shows a big damage difference.
4 - Buy some decent jewels, anoint Soul of Steel and fill out 21/20 gems in Arakaalis
5 - Enlighten 3, 6-link Shavs, 6L HoAg, Awakened Gems & 21/20 in HoAg
6 - Clarity Watcher's Eye

Thoughts? Would you shift anything much earlier?