(3.14) Toxic Rain + Caustic Arrow | 5-10m Sirus DPS | Fast + Durable | 50c Budget/SSF Uber Elder
" I am not good at all with PoB for these types of things, so wanted to test this. It seems you might be better with PoB, so maybe I am not understanding this correctly, and I would truely appreciate if you can find a flaw in my logic. My theory is that as you move into really end game gear, we eventually reach a break point where the decreased effect duration of the awakened gem is greater than the marginal DPS gain of the increased chaos DoT multi. I think my build right now is just reaching that breakpoint. Here is my pastebin, with both gems added so I can easily switch between them: https://pastebin.com/TJLruWDa Using the forumula in the original post of attack speed * 1.4 (mirage archer) * 3.5 average pods * duration * DoT DPS, I am getting almost exactly the same DPS from the two gems, with the awakened version adding 0.009% to my DPS, and I think any additional damage investment in gear would result in awakened swift affliction actually decreasing my DPS. Calcs are: Unawakened: 3.08*1.4*3.5*1.75*213,913 = 5,649,656 Awakened: 3.08*1.4*3.5*1.65*226,897 = 5,650,144 This should only come into play once you have DoT multi on pretty much every gear slot, but think it does come into play once you get into really late game gear. I can afford the awakened gem if it truly is an upgrade, but I'm not 100% sure that it is, and if I did make a mistake somewhere, I'm hoping someone can help me learn to be better at playing PoB. | |
"You did cut some life here and there and in result you have around 1k less life than the example POB in the guide. Try to get at least 5k life by filling life on items than don't have any for example gloves, and pick the life nodes you skipped for example blood drinker. Also I'd say quality the totem supports for faster placement and change that spell leech affix flask into something else, we don't really have any damaging spell in this build (toxic rain counts as attack and pods don't leech only initial hit does, so it's very little anyway). I'd probably pick curse immunity affix. You're not immune to ailments, you need to craft chance to avoid ailments on gloves and body armour otherwise elegant form is kinda waste of a cluster (the whole point is to get 100% chance to avoid ailments so you don't need flasks for it). So either get the armor pieces adjusted for the crafts, or replace that cluster with life one and get flasks for ailments. | |
"Ok, I'm pretty sure this is old pre nerf mirage archer. Because the current one not only has 60% less attack speed but also 30% less damage. So it has 40% of your normal attack speed and 70% of your normal damage 0.4*0.7=0.28 so if my math is correct mirage is 28% damage increase (much closer in value to efficacy nowadays but has the advantage of being auto-target and not interrupted by movement) Also keep in mind that while skill effect duration is additive, the more you have of it, the less impactful is the 10% "loss", for example if theoretically someone was specced into both exceptional performance and potency of will for an extra 50% duration the difference between 2.25 and 2.15 is you retain 95.5% of the duration after the penalty while the difference between 1.75 and 1.65 you retain 94.2% of the duration and the lower on "increased duration" you go the bigger the impact of 10% reduced, on the other hand the more duration you stack, the less noticable the difference is. So it's not just how much chaos multi you have to nullify the impact of 10% extra chaos multi, it's also how much duration do you have to feel the loss of 10%. Also one thing that is not measurable is the fact that mobs can move out of pod. If the mob teleports out of your toxic rain after 1.5 sec of it being placed, having 1.65 duration or 1.75 wouldn't make a difference because the last portion of it would be wasted. Now whether that toxic rain did 5% more damage in the first 1.5 second would always matter. This obviously depends on situation / mob type. Some are very stationary and some run around like mad. Unfortunately bow chaos skills are ground bound and don't just stick to the target after placement unlike bane or essence drain (however these still can get screwed by immunity phases). My logic was that upfront damage > tail end damage. If you're not convinced, you can always experiment with stacking more duration (was easier last season, sadly clusters were nerfed) or even leave that gem out completely but if it says it's a dps increase, even a tiny one, why not go for it after you upgraded everything else? The biggest opportunity cost is the price, but on the other hand as you said it's a bigger upgrade for someone who has less multi on gear and at sub 1ex price it's probably cheaper upgrade than upgrading slots like quiver or neck. On the other hand, the amount of free chaos multi floating around was also toned down this season, eternal suffering I'm seeing giving 25% increased chaos and I'm pretty sure gave chaos multi in delirium, method of the madness wheel also gives less multi and more chaos res and increased chaos damage. So I don't know if we'll again reach the point of having "too much multi", could only happen with specific clusters I think and these always give the possibility to swap into different nodes. (And no I'm not really a POB expert or anything, I just share my opinion.) | |
|
Thanks for your response. Really helpful things to think about. Just a couple thoughts:
" You are right, but as this amount is a constant, it really doesn't impact our analysis too much. It only changes the absolute difference between my dots from 487 to 446, but leave the percentage DPS difference exactly the same. " Yeah, it is having a big impact as I am struggling to find more skill effect duration. Maybe potentcy of will would be a better annoint than corruption, but the withered effect just seems so juicy, as I have 100% chance to apply wither on hit up to 5 stacks form double eternal suffering. " I think this is the key for why I may want to invest, as it will do more damage to targets that move. " I think my main concern when I started the excersize was that it would be a DPS downgrade. Doing the math, it looks like on a stationary target it is breakeven with my current gear, so the only risk would be I find more multi on another gear piece and it would mean a decrease in DPS using the awakened version, but atm I don't really see that happening, so I am leaning towards picking it up. Thanks for all of your insights! | |
|
Crafting your +1 chaos/+1 dex amulet for cheap [mini-guide]
I just finished crafting my +1 Dex / +1 Chaos amulet and thought I'd write up a quick guide, as well as some statistical information. Here is my end result (I'm in the process of getting T1 life on it, but ran out of harvest crafts, so ignore that stat for now) tl;dr - total cost ~200 - 400c 1. Buy an iLvl 83+ Hunter amulet 2. Alt spam for +1 dex 3. Augment for a good or removable affix 4. Repeat 2 - 3 for as long as you can stay sane 5. Lock prefixes and Chaos slam + remove/add chaos for T1 Chaos Damage Multi 6. Lock suffixes and Chaos slam for +1 Chaos 7. Remove chaos life leech prefix 8. Perfect resists, life, etc Note -- This version is for a plain Hunter inflicted amulet. You can follow a similar process along with an Awakener's Orb to also get attack speed, but it's significantly more expensive. Throughout this guide, I refer to the following:
Spoiler
Desirable Affix
Spoiler
These are affixes that you would likely want to keep. They may be low tier versions of an affix you can target with harvest, or they might be something that you want to protect at all costs. In rough order of priority these are: * (hunter) Malovence has % reduced mana reservation (1 tier) * (hunter) % chance to gain a power, frenzy, or endurance charge in kill (2 tiers) * high + strength (this can't be harvest targeted) * Fire/lightning/cold resist * % max energy shield * # increased energy shield Undesirable, harvest-targetable affix
Spoiler
Any affix that can be removed by a harvest seed craft. These include attack, defense, caster, physical, life, fire, cold, lightning, speed, critical, and a few others. Undesirable, difficulty to remove affix
Spoiler
These are mainly anything that relates to attributes or mana. If you get one of these, the only thing you can do is annul and pray. Part 1 - The Base
Spoiler
The hardest and most random part of the process is the first two steps. There are four +1 prefixes that can appear on the amulet, and we only want one of them. You can purchase or farm a hunter-influenced amulet. The stats on it don't matter, just make sure it is at least Level 83. Once you have it, scour it down to normal, then transmute it to magic. Now just lots of alt spamming. I was lucky and it only took me 687 Orbs of Alteration to hit +1 dex. Along the way, I passed over a +1 strength, a +1 chaos, and a reduced mana Malovence. On the plus side, poedb shows that the +1 dex/strength/int is more likely than the +1 chaos (600 vs 250), but getting any influence on an alteration is already pretty rare. After you have the +1 dex, your next step is based on what secondary affix you have (if any). Scenario 1: You have a +1 dex and also a desired secondary affix. Action: Skip to the next section Scenario 2: You have a +1 dex and an undesirable but harvest removable suffix. Action: Skip to the next section. Scenario 3: You have a +1 dex and undesirable and difficult to remove suffix. Action: Either try to annual the suffix away or scour and try again Scenario 3: You have only a single +1 dex. Action: Use an augmentation orb to add a suffix. If it is removable or desirable, continue. If not, then you can either try to annual it away (50/50 chance), or scour and start over. I was incredibly lucky with my craft, and on my first augmentation orb, I hit T2 % chance to gain power, frenzy, or endurance charges. This elevated my craft from good to GG and impacted increased the amount of money and time I was willing to spend. Part 2 - The Decision
Spoiler
Prerequisite: A magic amulet with +1 dex (prefix), and either a desirable suffix or a suffix that can be removed with a harvest craft. Depending on how good your base is, you now need to decide whether or not to beast imprint your magic amulet. For me, the decision was easy, as even a T2 charge on kill, is too good to risk. I would say that if you hit (or wait until you hit) either of the desirable hunter affixes (charge on kill, malevolence reservation), then you should imprint the item. <optional> Use quality currency on your amulet to help increase the change of getting a desired third attribute. I didn't play Delirium much, so this part is a little new to me. But you can quality up your amulet to help influence the type of prefix you get when you next use a Regal orb. When we regal, we don't want an attribute or mana affix. I would suggest using tempering (defense) or abrasive (attack). Since the amulet is magic, it will take a full stack of 10 to give it 20% quality. Do this before you make an imprint, as restoring the item will return its quality as well. <optional> Beast imprint = ~65c - 75c. If you haven't used one before, it is very easy. Purchase the best, go to the Menagerie, and right-click the item to add it. Then go to the area, select the imprint recipe, and place your amulet on the altar, then activate. After you kill the beasts, an Imprint orb will drop. You can then use the Imprint to return your amulet back to the state it was in when the imprint was made. This will only work on the exact amulet (or a split amulet), and only once (although you can purchase and make a 2nd imprint after using it). Once you have finished crafting your amulet, you can git rid of the imprint orb. Now the big gamble: Regal your item and hope for a good affix. If you get a desirable or removable affix, continue to the next part. If not, then you can try to annual it away (1/3 chance). If your annual fails, then you either need to use your Imprint token to reset it back to the two-affix magic version, or scour and start over. It took me two tries to get a removable affix. I got mana on both my regal attempts. I used my imprint on the first, then purchased another beast imprint. On the second, I was lucky with the annulment and ended with a two-affix rare. Part 3 - The beginning of the end
Spoiler
Prerequisite: A rare with two or three affixes. One of which is +1 dex, the other two are either desirable or removable. At this point, the hard work is done, and as long as you are careful, there isn't much you can do to irrevocably bork it. Just be very careful about what harvest recipes you use, and always double-check with poedb. Almost all of the steps in this section are geared towards getting the wanted chaos affixes. As such, you will need to have a good supply of Chaos garden crafts. You will need a minimum of two chaos augments (although needing 3 or 4 is more likely), and around 3 - 10 remove/add chaos (depending on your luck). You will also need several remove seed crafts that correspond to a non-chaos tag. The first step is to get a T1 hunter suffix for chaos damage over time. We are targeting this first since it is the one that will likely require the most remove/add chaos attempts. To increase our chances, we want to lock out all prefixes. That will prevent our chaos augments from hitting either +1 chaos skill, or chaos life leech. You already have one prefix on your amulet. If you received another prefix with your regal orb, then you can just craft any third prefix. If you didn't get a prefix with your regal, then you will need to add a removable one. Any easy way to do this is to craft + physical damage to attacks, then use a remove/add physical to convert it to a fixed prefix. There are no physical suffixes you can hit, so this is guaranteed. Next, with the prefixes locked, you will use your first chaos augment. There are only two suffices you can hit. Chaos resistance, and chaos dot multi. Keep using remove/add, remove, and argument chaos on your amulet until you hit T1 chaos multi. Which exact crafts you use will vary slightly, based on whether you have both chaos suffixes (prefer a remove), or only one (prefer a remove/add). If you end up with both T1 chaos dot multi, and high-tier chaos resistance, you can keep it, bit it will make maximizing your chaos dot multi harder. It took me 4 remove/add chaos, 2 remove chaos, and 3 augment chaos to hit T1 chaos DOT multi. I ended with it as the only chaos suffix. Part 4 - The middle of the end
Spoiler
pre-requisite: A rare amulet with three prefixes (one is +1 dex, the other two are either crafted or harvest removable), and a T1 chaos dot multi suffix. The hard part is over. This is by far the easiest step. We are now going to get our +1 chaos skill prefix, using much the same process as the previous section. First, if you don't have chaos resist as a suffix (and don't want it), then you will need to lock your suffixes using a combination of any suffix craft, and any removable or desirable suffix. For me, I used a fire seed augment to give a guaranteed fire resist (while my prefixes were still locked). Next, open up a prefix slot either by changing your workbench craft, or using a harvest seed to remove the physical (or other) affix from earlier. Now chaos seed slam. There are only two possibilities: leech % chaos damage as life, or +1 chaos skill gems. The first is far more likely. If you hit it, then you need to unlock your other prefix slot and chaos seed slam again. You are now guaranteed the +1 chaos. If you choose to leave a suffix open, then you probably received chaos resistance as well, and it will take a third slam to get +1 chaos skill. The +1 chaos skill is very rare to roll naturally (has one of the lowest weights), so we need to guarantee it. The end is nigh - perfecting your amulet
Spoiler
pre-requisite: A rare amulet with +1 dex skill (prefix), +1 chaos skill(prefix), likely leech chaos damage as life (prefix), T1 chaos damage over time multi (suffix), one or two other desirable suffixes. When adding +1 chaos skill, you likely hit the chaos damage life leech first. No worries, a simple remove life seed craft will take care of it. Depending on what you want as your third prefix, you can either remove it completely (leaving the prefix open for the crafted reduce non-channeling mana cost of skills), or use remove/add life to try and convert it to a high-tier life roll. If you go for the life, my and others experience has been that it is much harder than getting T1 chaos DOT multi. I've used 11+ remove/add life crafts, and the best I've gotten was T3 life. I'm considering just removing it, and moving the mana cost reduction from my ring to the amulet. At this point, you also have one or likely two suffixes to play around with. The safest choice is to go for resists. Once you have your prefixes again locked, it's not hard to get two T1 resists. A much risker option would be to get one T1 resist, and then hunter slam, hoping for either of the top two hunter suffixes (malovence mana reduction or gain charge on kill). Your much more likely to get fire, cold, or physical DOT multi instead though. This isn't the end of the world, as they can all be safely removed via seed crafts. But, there is a small chance your hunter slam could also give reduced attribute requirements, which can't be removed. If you managed to hit the Malovence mana reduction, you would go from a 4-8ex amulet to a 25+ex amulet, so I say go for it if you have the currency (I didn't and already had the T2 charge on kill suffix, so I left it alone) Congrats! You now have a BiS amulet, made from scratch! Costs:
Spoiler
How expensive this is to craft will depend on your seed situation. I bought a decent amount of seeds and enhancement buds, but this isn't required. It just speeds up the process. Base amulet: 75c 1000 orbs of alteration: (I had them saved, so don't know the cost) Craicis Chimera (Beast imprint) x2: 140c 100 T1 Primal Maw (chaos) seeds: 150c 1x Fortune Flower (60c) 1x Horticrafting Flower (50c) 1x Lifeforce Blossom (80c) random remove seed crafts (60c if you use a service, free if you have it yourself) Last edited by GrimzEcho on Jul 13, 2020, 10:09:25 PM
| |
|
Reserved for some harvest metrics
| |
|
Which of these bows would you use? I'm leaning towards the Maraketh, but according to POB, the Imperial bow gives me 185,000+ dot dps. Last edited by buckr49 on Jul 14, 2020, 12:53:19 PM
| |
|
I would take the maraketh one because of the area of damage and speed .... Perhaps you can try remove life in harvest and craft chaos....
| |
|
whats the best in slot for high budget shoes. do we still keep atziri's or opt for a crafted rare?
|
|
"You can always make a rare, there are endless possibilities with harvest even with dodge mod (temple boots with redeemer added influence mod and trying to get dodge), not really convinced the generic "tailwind + elusive" is the way to go because of this build low crit and semi low accuracy, but you can check what mods exist and what would you want to craft. I've even seen someone make immune to poison boots and afaik that can only start as essence craft and then strip other mods and add whatever you want. Could also go with shaper mod to avoid ailments and then free 1 other slot from getting it. |
