[3.9] Physical Conversion Bowyer | Wander [TS/LA/IS + Barrage] [KB + Power Siphon] [All Content]

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SummerMelody wrote:

Do you think we could drop Cyclopean Coil if we get "Cannot be frozen" mod on boots? is immunity to shock really that important?

I'm thinking of multimodding a pair of spell dodge two-toned boots since well rolled ones are pretty much non-existent.

Pref: Life, 30% MS + Spell dodge, Cannot be frozen OR Attack dodge when focussed OR hybrid life
Suff: double res, double res, multimod

Shock immunity is definitely worth having as there are a lot of sources for shock right now, especially in dangerous situation like uElder, one shock from the tentacool and one ice spear from Elder and boom, you're a dead man, probably.

Rollling TT boots with fossils can be expensive but worth the upgrade, personally I'd finish it after everything else so that I can pick the hybird res base.

Have been playing around with Power Siphon because I got a 21/23 Vaal one for cheap (20 alch) and I finally understand why people don't play it.

Because the KB explosion realy carries the burden of playing KB lmao. PS is juicy and all but it doesn't go boom boom. Have not made remarkable progress yet because of JP and SP's gateway ping, also RNG doesn't stand by my side crafting in-game, instead I made OP gear in a simulator (pls end me). Want to make a good ammy first because I need the stat and crafting 2 rings is a pain in the ass.

The damn Loreweave won't just 6L, now I finally understand why people sells fusing to buy 6L one straight away, I did that back in Legion because I had the fund and now reality finally starting to hit me.

vPS is still very nice, can full clear red maps in a 4L with all the cull and stuffs, totally recommend if you want to try something new, I like fork/chain better than pierce because it's not KB. Also Enahkra can you be more specific with gem quality and level, I think that'd be a good place to improve, but usually %quality = damage so pretty no-brain there.

EDIT: Just crafted this INSANE ammy, open for mirror service *starts sobbing*

I enjoyed reading the more recent additions to the guide and made some adjustments to my setup accordingly.

1) Replaced Cold Penetration for Inspiration in my Barrage setup (turned out to be a substantial DPS and QOL improvement)

2) Swapped +2 Barrage Tempest's Binding for +2 Barrage Devoto's Devotion (ended up valuing increased movement/attack speed over a pseudo-6L KB as there were no problem with 1-shotting rare packs)

3) Swapped CWDT setup to include Wave of Conviction rather than Lightning Golem

4) Took out +2 MGOH jewel, currently using Double Hatred Watcher's Eye (conversion/flat), Lethal Pride (DD, Life, Fire Res, Armor), and 4 rare jewels with life + 3 DPS mods





https://pastebin.com/DPJM3e56

Overall, my POB numbers saw a sizeable increase and I'm at 7.5M Shaper DPS without unrealistic inflation. Defenses are at 5.5K life and 80% Res with roughly ~53% chance to not take attack damage (1-.82*.7*.82).

I tried going deeper in Delve as it's really the only thing left which continues to present a sizeable challenge, but I found myself struggling to stay alive around Depth 475. Even with all defenses up and reasonably intelligent play, there's just too much incoming damage for me to deal with to consistently complete encounters (>10% death rate). I think I would be able to push to Depth 500 with brute force but I'm not sure if that's worth the trouble apart from a feel-good moment.

Apart from the wander, I ended up playing an Impale TS Champion with about a 50 exalt budget as well. It certainly wasn't as flashy or fun, but I can't deny it was significantly stronger in both single target damage, clear speed, and unbelievable survivability. I'll be looking forward to seeing other measures to increase performance but probably will stay with TS for now. It's a shame because stylistically I love this build and I want to play it more!

My main playtester in league, SoapyBlast decided to attempt uber elder with a white wand from Act 1 and succeeded. I linked the vid at the top of the guide because it was quite entertaining. I'm still brainstorming for the mirrored guide, trying to figure out if there's a clean solution around this recent flask effect change.

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oMySunshine wrote:

Spoiler

Have been playing around with Power Siphon because I got a 21/23 Vaal one for cheap (20 alch) and I finally understand why people don't play it.

Because the KB explosion realy carries the burden of playing KB lmao. PS is juicy and all but it doesn't go boom boom. Have not made remarkable progress yet because of JP and SP's gateway ping, also RNG doesn't stand by my side crafting in-game, instead I made OP gear in a simulator (pls end me). Want to make a good ammy first because I need the stat and crafting 2 rings is a pain in the ass.

The damn Loreweave won't just 6L, now I finally understand why people sells fusing to buy 6L one straight away, I did that back in Legion because I had the fund and now reality finally starting to hit me.

vPS is still very nice, can full clear red maps in a 4L with all the cull and stuffs, totally recommend if you want to try something new, I like fork/chain better than pierce because it's not KB. Also Enahkra can you be more specific with gem quality and level, I think that'd be a good place to improve, but usually %quality = damage so pretty no-brain there.

EDIT: Just crafted this INSANE ammy, open for mirror service *starts sobbing*

Spoiler

Do you mean I should clarify which is better: 1 gem lvl or 3% quality? If so, I can probably add something about that. Although, gem lvl is pretty much always better than quality for this build and most others.

Also, that's a very nice amulet but funnily enough, the WED roll replaces %damage while leeching which gives pretty much the same amt of dps.

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Escalune wrote:

Spoiler

I enjoyed reading the more recent additions to the guide and made some adjustments to my setup accordingly.

1) Replaced Cold Penetration for Inspiration in my Barrage setup (turned out to be a substantial DPS and QOL improvement)

2) Swapped +2 Barrage Tempest's Binding for +2 Barrage Devoto's Devotion (ended up valuing increased movement/attack speed over a pseudo-6L KB as there were no problem with 1-shotting rare packs)

3) Swapped CWDT setup to include Wave of Conviction rather than Lightning Golem

4) Took out +2 MGOH jewel, currently using Double Hatred Watcher's Eye (conversion/flat), Lethal Pride (DD, Life, Fire Res, Armor), and 4 rare jewels with life + 3 DPS mods

https://pastebin.com/DPJM3e56

Overall, my POB numbers saw a sizeable increase and I'm at 7.5M Shaper DPS without unrealistic inflation. Defenses are at 5.5K life and 80% Res with roughly ~53% chance to not take attack damage (1-.82*.7*.82).

I tried going deeper in Delve as it's really the only thing left which continues to present a sizeable challenge, but I found myself struggling to stay alive around Depth 475. Even with all defenses up and reasonably intelligent play, there's just too much incoming damage for me to deal with to consistently complete encounters (>10% death rate). I think I would be able to push to Depth 500 with brute force but I'm not sure if that's worth the trouble apart from a feel-good moment.

Apart from the wander, I ended up playing an Impale TS Champion with about a 50 exalt budget as well. It certainly wasn't as flashy or fun, but I can't deny it was significantly stronger in both single target damage, clear speed, and unbelievable survivability. I'll be looking forward to seeing other measures to increase performance but probably will stay with TS for now. It's a shame because stylistically I love this build and I want to play it more!

Very nice, yeah I'm surprised you even made it to depth 475 with this build. I wasn't expecting it to reach below depth ~350 although I haven't tested it myself. Wanders are just so naturally squishy and low dps that despite efforts to optimize there's only so much it can do. Hopefully GGG acknowledges wanders exist and deserve some attention.

I was considering making an impale champion version of a phys wander but I figured what's the point. Bows will do the job much better, because it's way easier to scale up pure phys with bows than a wand. Tshot gives 360 degree clear whereas KB only fires in a cone so that is definitely a disadvantage for wide-open maps, especially in standard league. The gap is smaller in temp league due to recent T-shot nerfs but there is still that 360 degree aspect that KB doesn't have.

Pretty much the only reason people should play a wander this day and age is if they enjoy the feel of KB. Otherwise there are many other builds out there that can achieve more for less. Maybe one day that'll change, maybe in 3.9? 4.0? We'll see...

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Very nice, yeah I'm surprised you even made it to depth 475 with this build. I wasn't expecting it to reach below depth ~350 although I haven't tested it myself. Wanders are just so naturally squishy and low dps that despite efforts to optimize there's only so much it can do. Hopefully GGG acknowledges wanders exist and deserve some attention.

I was considering making an impale champion version of a phys wander but I figured what's the point. Bows will do the job much better, because it's way easier to scale up pure phys with bows than a wand. Tshot gives 360 degree clear whereas KB only fires in a cone so that is definitely a disadvantage for wide-open maps, especially in standard league. The gap is smaller in temp league due to recent T-shot nerfs but there is still that 360 degree aspect that KB doesn't have.

Pretty much the only reason people should play a wander this day and age is if they enjoy the feel of KB. Otherwise there are many other builds out there that can achieve more for less. Maybe one day that'll change, maybe in 3.9? 4.0? We'll see...

If you haven't had a chance to test the build a little deeper in Delve, I'm happy to share my experience below Depth 350. For what it's worth, I don't claim to be amazing but I think I play fairly well.

1) I found the build's DPS more than sufficient and it has not yet presented itself as a barrier. This is with the caveat that I'm using Standard gear of course. Gehennix at Depth 450 died in about 2 seconds. At some point it took 2 KB's to kill packs unless there was juicy HoI chaining going on.

2) Deaths were not frequent (around 10% of the time) but that seemed unacceptably high to make it an efficient means to farm. These deaths really occurred in 3 situations.

- Player greed leading to bad decision making: basically trying to combat loot rare fossils or valuable drops while mobs were still up or diving into environmental AoE. Not a fault of the build, just bad play.

- Instant deaths out of nowhere: I'm not sure which mobs are doing this, it's sometimes hard to tell. This seemed to be the most common type of preventable death, so I was trying to focus all my efforts on reducing the frequency of this situation.

- Getting surrounded by a billion small mobs in between KB shots and getting stunlocked from 100 to 0 in 1 second. Not really frequent but also tended to occur during those Azurite encounters. I guess an anti-stun flask would help but it feels too janky to use one so it's a no.

3) I didn't play with a life flask but rather used Atziri's Promise to help with blowing up the whole screen in 1 shot, as well as some chaos resist for those on-death pools. Anything that was going to kill me was something where I could not react (there were zero "slow" deaths), so wearing a life flask seemed useless.

4) Randomly shield charging around actually does pretty good DPS and keeps Fortify up with you moving around to avoid residual AoE. It was actually a pretty effective way to play on those "hold the line" encounters.

But yeah, in terms of both mechanical superiority and scaling, I just could not compare TS to wanding without being dishonest to myself. KB clears the entire screen in a cone but TS (with legacy enchant and Rigwald's or Shaper +arrow quiver) was basically clearing 2 screens omni-directionally. Feelsbadman.

Hello, thank for your nice build. I'm doing this build recently, do you think this would be viable for Assassin as well? The new assassin seems strong.

Hello, thank for your nice build. I'm doing this build recently, do you think this would be viable for Assassin as well? The new assassin seems strong.

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Escalune wrote:

Spoiler

If you haven't had a chance to test the build a little deeper in Delve, I'm happy to share my experience below Depth 350. For what it's worth, I don't claim to be amazing but I think I play fairly well.

1) I found the build's DPS more than sufficient and it has not yet presented itself as a barrier. This is with the caveat that I'm using Standard gear of course. Gehennix at Depth 450 died in about 2 seconds. At some point it took 2 KB's to kill packs unless there was juicy HoI chaining going on.

2) Deaths were not frequent (around 10% of the time) but that seemed unacceptably high to make it an efficient means to farm. These deaths really occurred in 3 situations.

- Player greed leading to bad decision making: basically trying to combat loot rare fossils or valuable drops while mobs were still up or diving into environmental AoE. Not a fault of the build, just bad play.

- Instant deaths out of nowhere: I'm not sure which mobs are doing this, it's sometimes hard to tell. This seemed to be the most common type of preventable death, so I was trying to focus all my efforts on reducing the frequency of this situation.

- Getting surrounded by a billion small mobs in between KB shots and getting stunlocked from 100 to 0 in 1 second. Not really frequent but also tended to occur during those Azurite encounters. I guess an anti-stun flask would help but it feels too janky to use one so it's a no.

3) I didn't play with a life flask but rather used Atziri's Promise to help with blowing up the whole screen in 1 shot, as well as some chaos resist for those on-death pools. Anything that was going to kill me was something where I could not react (there were zero "slow" deaths), so wearing a life flask seemed useless.

4) Randomly shield charging around actually does pretty good DPS and keeps Fortify up with you moving around to avoid residual AoE. It was actually a pretty effective way to play on those "hold the line" encounters.

But yeah, in terms of both mechanical superiority and scaling, I just could not compare TS to wanding without being dishonest to myself. KB clears the entire screen in a cone but TS (with legacy enchant and Rigwald's or Shaper +arrow quiver) was basically clearing 2 screens omni-directionally. Feelsbadman.

Thanks for these insights! I'm probably going to quote you sometime in the future when I add a delve section to the guide (if you don't mind).

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ian55668899 wrote:

Hello, thank for your nice build. I'm doing this build recently, do you think this would be viable for Assassin as well? The new assassin seems strong.

Assassin is definitely very strong for bossing. I think I'd choose Assassin over Deadeye/Raider for sure, and maybe Pathfinder. Although Pathfinder has nowhere near the same level of burst dps, it still has more defenses due to consistent Taste of Hate uptime and a smoother gameplay overall (constant Dying Sun uptime). I think it's very viable for end-game but one definite drawback is the 1 less KB projectile. This might affect screen-clear a bit.

To build an assassin wander there would need to be some changes to the setup. You would need to compensate by taking an extra life cluster probably, and also, you would have an excessive amount of crit. This might require you to drop diamond flask entirely, and also craft the wand in a different way, etc. I haven't looked into this in detail but based on some preliminary POB tests, you would have at least more dps and survivability than raider/deadeye.

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Thanks for these insights! I'm probably going to quote you sometime in the future when I add a delve section to the guide (if you don't mind).

You're welcome to do so if you think it'd be useful information to share. I did reach Depth 500 then gave up because it's too much work to push to Depth 600 (I do think I could do this though).

Sold a Clarity jewel for 8.2 ex and had some currency to spent, most of them were not very well thought out. This might be my final gear as there's not much to change and any more upgrades (I hate the Loreweave) will be too expensive for what kind of money I can make.

Killed Shaper deathless on a 4L, no picture because I was very tired and yeah, bossing with Pathfinder is just too damn good. Having flasks up to smash before you dive in feels a lot safer than just waddling towards a boss and start barraging, definitely recommend Pathfinder, even after the nerf, to bossing dedicated player. Raider is still very defensive, spell dodge saved my ass multiple times when Shaper shot out balls and Raider is just great overall, a jack of all trade I guess.

Not sure if it's the build's defense or it's my flawed mechanic that gets me killed in endgame content but it has been very frustrating. I planned on playing Assasin next league but after all this I think I will take my time learning how to manage my currency, game mechanic and just get better at the game in general. Either going back to my roots: Trickster CA or skip the next league to study to get into a good college. For now I'll get to 24 for that portal and have my break.

The build has been fun Enahkra, and that's the biggest success it can give me, thank you for yours and everyone else's effort. I hope GGG will make changes to Wander in general so that the build would be even better than it is now. Good luck to new people trying wanders!