[3.9] Physical Conversion Bowyer | Wander [TS/LA/IS + Barrage] [KB + Power Siphon] [All Content]

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Ceveth wrote:

You say counter-productive but after having read through the 30~ or so relevant pages of this build's feedback it seems like the largest issue is clear, whereas the author himself has pointed out once you reach a certain amount of damage you're going to only be increased Guardian/Shaper clerspeed by 1-2 seconds.

Therefore I don't think it's entirely remiss to be discussing ways to drop the least amount of single target -- yeah, very aware, we're going to be losing single target DPS -- to bolster other areas of gameplay. Perhaps this is a heretical idea in softcore, but one I think may need a more serious look at.

I'm not suggesting The Tempest's is the solution, merely initiating additional conversation in this vein.

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NameMerken wrote:

Wew, died 3times but I made it. Uber Elder down with this build.



Dropped a fucking steelring ofc.

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Enahkra wrote:

Wow congratz man! Wow 4.8k life lol. If you had done it with like 5.5k+ life or used the tankier tree you would prob do it deathless no problem. I bet after a few more tries you should be able to do it deathless-1 death consistently.

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Enahkra wrote:

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Ceveth wrote:

You say counter-productive but after having read through the 30~ or so relevant pages of this build's feedback it seems like the largest issue is clear, whereas the author himself has pointed out once you reach a certain amount of damage you're going to only be increased Guardian/Shaper clerspeed by 1-2 seconds.

Therefore I don't think it's entirely remiss to be discussing ways to drop the least amount of single target -- yeah, very aware, we're going to be losing single target DPS -- to bolster other areas of gameplay. Perhaps this is a heretical idea in softcore, but one I think may need a more serious look at.

I'm not suggesting The Tempest's is the solution, merely initiating additional conversation in this vein.

You make a valid point when you say that we should focus more on scaling KB damage to maintain the same QOL as pre 3.7; here are some of my thoughts.

As for Tempest's Binding, yes, I have considered it. There are several drawbacks but the main one I'm concerned with is the high mana cost; Ice Bite is really good for scaling our damage, but Innervate is not. Yet both gems have a huge mana multiplier (130%). The result is that it takes a while to recover from missing a single shot of KB, which can be pretty dangerous. Add on top of this, the 80% res that needs to be compensated for elsewhere partially counteracts the added damage to KB and also barrage. Dropping bubonics would likely be the most optimal route, which negates all the damage contribution of Innervate. So what you get is a 5 link at the cost of a 6 link in addition to a 15% reduction in barrage damage + life recovery from life gain on hit since the enchant is impossible to find.

I'm considering removing all the unique helm suggestions from the guide except for Starkonja's Head, b/c it's just near-impossible to acquire a +1 barrage version.

So a good solution for KB requires a way to give more damage without raising the mana cost.

There are two possible solutions I can think of; one is an essence-crafted helm with the 30% more elemental damage (Horror) and the other is elder gloves with +70% to global crit multi. The Horror helm gives more damage, but it will be very costly trying to craft a decent one. As for +70% global crit multi gloves, the damage is less, so you may need "socketed gem supported by chance to bleed" also. I'm very reluctant to suggest this too b/c crafting it is very unrealistic. I want the build to be accessible to as many people as possible and not offer solutions that work for only a select few.

I haven't deemed either of these two solutions satisfactory enough to put it into the guide; also based on my conversations on this thread, via PM, on discord, with friends playing the build etc, it seems the problem persists mainly on the low-end with less-geared setups. Of the people who've complained about KB, I've checked their setup and it's mostly <lvl 80 using a lot of leveling gear, haven't even completed uber lab, no jewels etc. I'm not sure if the problem for those people are as bad once they reach higher levels with the fully geared setup (if they ever do). I'm hesitant to advise them to lower their single-target for the sake of KB since wanders historically have had terrible single target and people's wanders tend to perform worse than what I advertised. A lot of this has to do with bad gearing decisions, not fully reading/following the guide, or bad mechanics/lack of experience playing wanders. If I tell everyone to buff their KB at the expense of barrage, there will be a more people at the lower end who will start complaining about single target. I could present the 5-link or 6-link KB as an "option", but what happens in my experience is that a lot of people who shouldn't use that setup decide to anyway etc, and then complain. It's why I had to streamline a lot of the guide and reduce the amount of options I give people. Giving people more options only brings more trouble. Plus, I think the people who should use the 5-link or 6-link setup have already figured that out on their own, or could be addressed on an individual basis.

I think further in-game testing needs to be done to figure out how much damage per hit is required to one shot rares, especially Legion rares which are providing the most difficulty. I haven't been able to play recently, but based on what I've seen on stream of my friend playtesting the build, he could bring rares on T16s down to 30-50% life with KB. Will a 5-link KB fix the problem? Probably not. Perhaps a 6-link? Maybe, but this depends on too many factors like what content they're running, or how well-invested their build is. Some people don't mind running up and quick-tapping the rares with barrage. I'm more worried that telling people to get 5 or 6 link KB might not actually solve their problem, but rather make things worse by hurting their single target.

All this being said, I'm still investigating this and keeping an open mind. If someone offers a good solution I'm more than willing to add it to the guide; in the meantime I'm probably going to wait and collect more data and feedback.

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Enahkra wrote:

..Some people don't mind running up and quick-tapping the rares with barrage.

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streej wrote:

Something is terribly wrong with accuracy rating rework. For me it feels like 40% of barrage projectiles per 1 use going nowhere. Is going through the enemy but it deals 0 damage