[3.9] Physical Conversion Bowyer | Wander [TS/LA/IS + Barrage] [KB + Power Siphon] [All Content]

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Enahkra wrote:

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pokebuha wrote:

jewel

i have a question
would it be more effective if I used this ring?

will this ring be more effective
Poacher's Mark
Cursed enemies grant (16) Life when Hit by Attacks
Cursed enemies grant (9) Mana when Hit by Attacks

Do you have any advice?


convert physical damage to cold damage %101 with wathcher's eye

Difficulty with single targets.

Hey im currently not home but when I get home later Ill do a POB analysis. I have a few questions. How much did you pay for the wand, amulet, and gloves each and which bosses do you struggle on for single target? Do you struggle with survivability? Lastly, do you use POB?

POB
https://pastebin.com/knn75YM6

wand 10ex amulet 30c and gloves 80c
Hydra and chimera problem and same legion bosses

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Enahkra wrote:

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ssgtparker wrote:

Wouldn't this had been nice?

Lol time to buy a second wand

I have one but resists would go nuts

I mean I could Id just have to be good about the wise oak and do something about Fire being 4 over cold. That or its be good 2flasking before hits cause 40 resist is a big wack not capped!


Whatever It's done and I went back on path with the life gain and what not...lol

I gota make 7 ex and I can balance again and get this DAMN lightning resist off my ammy FINALLY!!!!

I still really want to go Farrul's still weighing that out. That Elder Power node looks tempting duel-wielding!


https://pastebin.com/TH3TY8Ba That's what I'm looking at vs what I have on now 1mil damage dif. upgrade trade off more hp but lose the over resist of 78

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Enahkra wrote:

Spoiler

Yes thank you for contributing that idea; it has helped a lot improving the damage of the build. And yes lol some people just don't bother fully reading the guide or put too many of their own unique flourishes on the build and end up screwing their damage. What a lot of them don't get is that unlike a lot of meta builds, wanders scale damage in a really generic way so a successful wander relies heavily on optimization for high levels of damage.

It baffles me when people neglect optimizing the easy stuff like passive tree and gem setups and then complain about damage.

Haha, like I said: I know that experience. Can be kinda draining when people don't read a well laid-out and indepth Guide. Having to repeat what you've already written almost verbatim sucks. But in the end I tried to look at it this way: no Guide in no Area ever had a 100% Success Rate. And in PoE not every Build is for everyone I guess. Some people just won't get the Playstyle/the Gearing/whatever, and it's fine to just let them be and quit the Build.

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Enahkra wrote:

Spoiler

And wow I didn't know that vid was yours! I watched it a few days back, and wanted to comment on reddit about it but realized I was too late to get into the discussion since the thread already died out.

I agree 100% with everything you said in the vid. If I had to make a vid discussing/predicting wanders in 3.7 I would have analyzed it in the exact same way.

I had a strange feeling while watching your video b/c it almost felt like you somehow got into my head and repeated aloud most of my thoughts on the current state of wanding lol.

Thanks mate, feels good to hear some confirmation :D And yeah, I was too late to the Discussion as well. Posted it before I went to sleep, and when I woke up I already had posts with dozens of Upvotes complaining that it was Synth Gear or that I used prenerf Abyss Jewels etc., which was accounted for ): I just don't get how people can think spewing their Opinion without even watching/reading what something is about is a valid cours of action.

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Enahkra wrote:

Spoiler

The change to shield charge + fortify has revolutionized the wanding playstyle. I'm glad a lot of the people playing the build now didn't play it last patch b/c it would have felt terrible in comparison. I didn't play league in 3.7 or 3.6 so I've relied on watching my friend stream this build to understand it's weaknesses. I've lost count how many times shield charge's quick dodge ability has saved him in boss encounters. It has to be 6+ times per uber elder fight at least. Even having shield charge alone w/o the fortify would have greatly helped the build but adding fortify on top of that was a complete game changer, by essentially giving us access to another ~1k+ extra life.

You also have the introduction of Steelskin paired with CWDT adds another ~1-2k to your life pool in most scenarios. Wanders have never felt tankier (at least not since the glorious instant leech days). That's not to say I haven't been receiving complaints. It seems GGG once again overtuned the damage of league mobs. I'm not really sure how to address the issue of legion mobs one shotting wanders, especially those who aren't fully geared to the level specified in my guide. :/ The only thing I can hope for is that the people playing the build continually make upgrades so they can sacrifice dps nodes and saturate all the life nodes on the right side of the tree. Otherwise, I'm out of ideas...

As for damage, I was doing POB testing and came to the same conclusion that the abyss jewel nerfs to ele wanders were largely compensated for by tree + especially accuracy changes. For physical wanders on the other hand, it was a straight up buff, since non-abyss jewels gave pretty much the same damage as legacy abyss jewels. The dps gap between ele and phys wanders was pretty small to begin with at a ~20+ ex investment range, but now I think phys wanders have clearly gained an edge.

Yep, can only confirm that. Personally sitting this League out and chilling on Standard, so I can't get the full fledged experience of progressing a Wander through all the Content with the new Skills sadly. But I tested it a bit and maaaaaaan does it feel good. Like you said, even only Shield Charge would've been enough. I hoped, but didnt expect, them to include Fortify in the package as well. But here we are, and it's great.
I totally forgot to mention the new Guard Skills in my Vid for some Reason. Huge oversight.

As for how to get further Mitigation etc., it's gonna be hard without some very serious restructuring. Baseline you can get some phys taken as Ele if you can squeeze it in on the Helmet, maybe min Endurance Charges.
Some Focus Stuff (Fortify Effect, Phys Reduction, Dodge) is cool as well, but a bit too situational/iffy to use I guess. Rather have something permanent.
Everything else got to come from as high as possible Life Levels and the Flasks I guess.
Sure there is some cool Stuff you can Build around, but I don't think Wanders can allow themselves to lose offensive Investment on the Tree and Gear that much.

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Enahkra wrote:

Spoiler

One thing I think we both overlooked to some degree was how badly the buff to magic + rare mobs would affect the KB's clearspeed ability. It's interesting b/c with that buff came new problems especially when combined with rippy + tanky Legion mobs. The only thing we ever bother to measure on POB is barrage dps, b/c single target has always been the major issue for wanders, but I think more concern should be shifted towards KB now. What the life buff did was make it tougher for people to play the build comfortably without using a fully geared end-game setup. Back then, KB with little investment could clear most mobs without issue, but now people just starting out struggle one shotting even magic packs. A lot of people playing this build are ex-ele wanders playing it for the first time, and they see this change to KB as the fault of this build alone rather than the archetype itself. (ex: some guy a few pages before was comparing this build to a 5 ex ele wander rofl; obviously hasn't played ele in 3.7) This seems to be a problem with no easy solution until passive power creep once again overtakes mob health. Even fully geared well-invested setups need to barrage down rare mobs. Magic mobs at that point get one-shot, but rares just won't die to KB; add in the enhanced legion mobs and this situation gets worse. Sure, I can recommend perhaps 5-6 link KB in the gloves, but this makes the gearing more difficult which is bad when I'm trying to make phys wanding more accessible to the community. Also the added mana cost would be a burden that would require addressing as well. Perhaps it's something the wanding community just has to get accustomed to as the new norm, since it was GGG's intention for us to actually engage rare monsters... idk.

Yeah, I didn't expect it to be that impactful as well. I feel it on Standard with some Builds, and I bet Legion Mobs are one or two Notches even above that.
Like you said a Pseudolink in the Gloves or Helmet like I did here:

seems like a plausible Option. Admittedly getting Res gets harder compared to a normal rare, and gearing in general more complex, but I'd say it's worth it to include it as an Upgrade Option. Especially now that Abyss Jewels aren't absolute king anymore, Hale Negator lost it's appeal a tiny bit.
As for the Mana Cost, I was at 78 unreserved Mana with a 48 Mana Cost KB in said Helmet. With the +2 Mana gained on Hit (and slightly stronger Mana Leech) from the Essence Sap Cluster I never felt it unless I missed Shots in a Row. It's worth considering, but I think as long as you can fire like 2 KBs before your Mana is empty, you're fine with MgoH.

But in my Reave+BF Ascendant Guide I recommended various pseudolink Helmets (Innervate/Hypo + Inc AoE with and without Horror Craft or even Tempests Binding) and you won't believe how many Times people turned up without any of that, complaining that their Reave Damage was shit. So be prepared :P

All that said, I generally do find it fun if we have to deal with Rare Mobs from Time to Time. But give it a few Leagues and it's back to one shots again, without a doubt like you say.

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Enahkra wrote:

Spoiler

Also, about all the criticisms you've received, I think it's ridiculous. People on reddit can be pretty toxic and have hivemind mentality; plus a lot of them just parrot what other people say or what streamers say without testing it themselves. They just blindly feed off each other it's pretty depressing sometimes. I wanted to comment about that on the reddit post and defend what you were saying but sadly it was too late for me to contribute anything meaningful.

Like I commented further up, it's mostly the fact that People shout shit without even checking the first line of the Video Description, what's written behind the PoB Links, or dare I say: even watching the Video, that annoys me. And then like you said, others parrot that shit. I think I'm beyond submitting serious Stuff there now.

Ty for the in depth Response :)

Here is my current gear set up.


I've got 3-mode jewels attack speed with shield/life/crit mult. They're not optimal for sure, just good placeholder.
Got lucky with 4 mode jewel - (1 exalt for such beauty). Looking for something similar in lifesearch.

I'm not expirienced POB user, i might pop up something wrong or opposite didnt pop up something. But anyway sitting at 4.7kk shaper damage. Power Siphon on the Shaper/UElder for p.charge generation. Good thing KB and PS both are blue gem slots.

What do? Imprint? Yolo regal?

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pokebuha wrote:

POB
https://pastebin.com/knn75YM6

wand 10ex amulet 30c and gloves 80c
Hydra and chimera problem and same legion bosses

I'm looking at your setup, you have ~3.19mil shaper dps which is solid. It's enough to kill Hydra/Chimera within a few seconds. Can you give me specifics about how bad your dps is? Like how long it takes to kill etc. There is at least one Legion boss with a bug where you can't kill it with barrage. I think you can easily break 4mil shaper dps with a few more levels which should be enough for all content.

Don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but if you followed my guide on how to craft a wand, you would have made a wand with more dps than your current wand, and also saved 3-4 ex. Your current wand is only slightly worse though; you lose maybe 50-80k dps.

I don't think Poacher's Mark is that good because boss have reduced curse effect, so for guardians+, it's only ~5 life gain on hit and ~2-3 mana gain on hit. Also you lose projectile weakness which is huge damage.

What is the added mod on Weapon Artistry? I notice you have Lethal Pride there, but you waste 2 points getting Weapon Artistry, so it may not be worth it.

Your new talisman is barely an upgrade from your other amulet. If you want something much better you need it to have 30+ crit multi and another good T1 damage mod. Just two of those mods + some mastercraft stuff can surpass your current amulet by a lot. Otherwise, don't waste money buying another amulet.

I see you have KB buffed on gloves; it's your choice but the problem with KB right now is that it can't one shot sometimes due to life buff to mobs. You need more damage PER HIT not more attack speed (faster attacks); crit chance also isn't ideal. I suggest you just follow the dps glove crafting section and those gloves will give you more dps to barrage, and also some KB dps. Also, 5L KB w/ Faster Attacks has a higher mana cost too. Anyway, just a suggestion.

Your current setup has 3.19m shaper dps. Adding flat cold enchant on boots will go from 3.19 --> 3.57mil. Add 2 ex dps gloves from guide and replace your KB gloves and you will go from 3.57mil --> 3.85mil.

Keep in mind in the POB you're only lvl 89, once you reach 92+ and take a few more damage nodes + jewel socket(s) like Precise Interception, you will have 4.4mil+. All these numbers don't include your Lethal Pride jewel, which should add another 300-400k dps. Also, you still have some quality on gems to get, and a 21/20 Added Cold gives you 100k+ dps.

If your dps is still bad at this point it's probably something with your playstyle or low life pool. If you get stunned you lose dps and die more easily. Are you spamming movement skill too much before fighting boss? Is your frost bomb hitting the boss? Is your blood rage up for boss? Are you missing with your barrage? Etc.

You should put the golem with your cwdt - steelskin setup because that guarantees 100% uptime. If you manually summon it, it wastes time and isn't up during hard fights. I think you can even socket an Ice golem instead since your wand has free green socket.

The biggest problem I see atm is your life pool. You have very low life and are missing some of the defenses mentioned in my guide. Fortify + Shield Charge will give you 1k free life when it's up, so you should use it over Flame Dash. You also don't have blind on hit which helps a lot too. Worst case scenario you could take Dazzling Strikes for the blind, but this isn't as optimal as an abyss jewel. You should be in the 5k+ life range with some more jewels, levels, etc, which will also help with your damage by getting stunned less.

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Ceveth wrote:

What do? Imprint? Yolo regal?

Yeah just yolo regal unless craicic chimerals are dirt cheap, like <50c cheap (haven't checked prices recently). If you yolo regal and annul off the bad mod, you will save 1 ex in later step by not having to craft crit chance + quality.

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ssgtparker wrote:

I mean I could Id just have to be good about the wise oak and do something about Fire being 4 over cold. That or its be good 2flasking before hits cause 40 resist is a big wack not capped!


Whatever It's done and I went back on path with the life gain and what not...lol

I gota make 7 ex and I can balance again and get this DAMN lightning resist off my ammy FINALLY!!!!

I still really want to go Farrul's still weighing that out. That Elder Power node looks tempting duel-wielding!


https://pastebin.com/TH3TY8Ba That's what I'm looking at vs what I have on now 1mil damage dif. upgrade trade off more hp but lose the over resist of 78

Lol naw I was kidding about the dual-wield. I seriously don't think it's worth it without mirrored wands like Foe Bite. You just give up a lot of defenses for a little bit more dps.

And btw you had full energy shield + leeching energy shield active, which is impossible. Removing the full energy shield option gives you 14.68mil which is still ridiculous for a temp league setup. Although not having some defenses must hurt with only 4.6k life lol. Prob still fun killing most bosses in ~1 second.

Alright, so 11-13 aSPD is better than aSPD & Quality even if we're worried about KB damage?

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streej wrote:

Here is my current gear set up.

Spoiler

I've got 3-mode jewels attack speed with shield/life/crit mult. They're not optimal for sure, just good placeholder.
Got lucky with 4 mode jewel

- (1 exalt for such beauty). Looking for something similar in lifesearch.

I'm not expirienced POB user, i might pop up something wrong or opposite didnt pop up something. But anyway sitting at 4.7kk shaper damage. Power Siphon on the Shaper/UElder for p.charge generation. Good thing KB and PS both are blue gem slots.

Spoiler

https://pastebin.com/qfSgNssQ

That is pretty ridiculous. By my temp league standards your jewels are more than good enough lol.

Actually you have more than 4.77mil dps if you used the same POB settings as my POB. I included Veteran Bowyer effect and proj weakness and your dps was above 5mil, at lvl 88 this is better than most endgame setups. I also removed the power charges from your setup since it's only up if you power siphon for a more accurate calculation.

The single easiest upgrade for your build atm is the flat cold enchant on boots. Getting that will give you like 400k more dps.

Anyway, I reorganized your POB to more closely resemble the one on my guide, changed your gems to 20 quality, etc made minor changes to resemble what you should have at higher level. At lvl 94, with only 3 dps flasks and no Vaal Haste your dps is 6.5mil which is overkill. Add Vaal Haste and it.s 7.3mil.

Probably best to include Fortify - Shield Charge in setup and maybe just drop Order for Warding and get Adrenaline so you can clear faster, but yeah it's up2u.

I recommend putting ice golem with your CWDT - Steelskin setup so it's constantly up. Will give more dps on average compared to manually summoning and wastes less time.

I don't recommend Power Siphon b/c you will get less damage overall. Here's why:

Let's say you deal ~6.5mil dps. If you have to switch to Power Siphon to get power charges, it takes ~1 second to get to max power charges. This means you lost 6.5mil damage during this second. Even the highest hp boss in game (Shaper/UElder with 18mil) will still die in 3 seconds. Power charges don't boost you that much maybe only to 7-7.2mil dps. But you lost 6.5mil damage from wasting your first second using Power Siphon. Not to mention Power Siphon has less range than KB, which might make UElder fight harder by reducing the range where you can hit the elder portals.