[3.9] Physical Conversion Bowyer | Wander [TS/LA/IS + Barrage] [KB + Power Siphon] [All Content]

Great build, very detailed!
Just wondering if you are going to update this build in 3.9?

Elder bases are gone, which means the life gain on hit mod from rings are no longer an option for us.

Dying sun flask is going to be super rare, and expensive. This makes the 50% effect of dying sun not viable for many people.

Just like Dying sun, the phys to cold conversion watcher's eye jewel is no longer viable for many players. How to convert in 3.9?

Good news is that KB might be buffed. And no need to use Lioneye's fall (bow chars will spend 20ex on it, I guess).

What are your thoughts on Barrage support? Will KB+ GMP/barrage support replace the use of Barrage?

I'm good at crafting, so I really like your build!

^elder bases are not gone and its a bow league so people will be farming for Dying suns no matter how hard it is to get to shaper.

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zhenyaowen wrote:

Spoiler

Great build, very detailed!
Just wondering if you are going to update this build in 3.9?

Elder bases are gone, which means the life gain on hit mod from rings are no longer an option for us.

Dying sun flask is going to be super rare, and expensive. This makes the 50% effect of dying sun not viable for many people.

Just like Dying sun, the phys to cold conversion watcher's eye jewel is no longer viable for many players. How to convert in 3.9?

Good news is that KB might be buffed. And no need to use Lioneye's fall (bow chars will spend 20ex on it, I guess).

What are your thoughts on Barrage support? Will KB+ GMP/barrage support replace the use of Barrage?

I'm good at crafting, so I really like your build!

Thanks! Yes, I do plan on updating it for 3.9 although probably not right away. There are lot of changes this patch that require in-game testing especially with the new atlas bosses to confirm the build is still viable for end-game.

It's true that elder ring bases will be rarer but the ilvl required for this build isn't that high, and even if the supply of these bases becomes limited I doubt the prices will be out of reach for the average player. This league you could find an elder ring base for 1 chaos, perhaps now with a lower chance of finding them, it'll be 10 chaos max? I'm not sure, we'll have to see. There's also the divination card for elder opals which wasn't too expensive last patch but might go up this time around.

I guess we'll also have to wait and see how rare Watcher's Eyes truly are. If they are indeed out of reach for the average player I might reconfigure the build to be a cold-based ele wander for this patch.

I think given the limited info we have right now, Power Siphon will be the lone contender with Barrage for the #1 single target skill. KB at least in its current state is weaker than Power Siphon as a single target skill, and even with substantial buffs, I don't see it reaching the same damage level as Power Siphon. GMP comes with too much of a negative downside to be considered a viable single target support gem, b/c of its less damage multiplier on top of losing out on a 40%+ more damage multiplier from another support gem like Inspiration or Energy Leech. The extra damage from having more projectiles from GMP is weakened by the 5% increase in attack time per projectile from Barrage support.

With Power Siphon, you get a lot of projectiles which means Dying Sun will likely be beaten out by Atziri's Promise as the #1 dps flask for a Power Siphon + Barrage support setup, but I guess we'll see in 1-2 days when the patch notes are finally revealed.

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Escalune wrote:

Spoiler

Thanks for putting some numbers forward with respect to the likely single target setup options for 3.9. When Barrage Support was announced, I know many people felt that it would supersede the actual Barrage skill as the go-to choice for boss DPS. But my intuition and bad napkin math (with lots of assumptions) makes me believe Barrage is still the best way to go. Part of that is the increased attack time per projectile locks you in place, leading to both a less fluid feeling play style and potentially dangerous bossing situations. Independent of the DPS considerations, those kind of kill it for me. The other part is that I'm using some legacy Barrage helmets and I'm way too lazy to acquire and craft Power Siphon helmets...

I know it's hard to tell without further information and formal patch notes, but do you envision any major changes to the bowyer version of the build apart from: 1) obviously switching any relevant Support Plus gems and 2) multi-modding around any overpowered new Conqueror influence mods? Seems like much of the core build will remain the same otherwise. I think I will play it some more to explore the new end-game content in Standard come 3.9 patch.

As a small addition to your previous Delve posts, I was able to take my bow character to depth 750 with minor difficulty in Standard. I decided not to use a HH or Voidfletcher, instead opting for a Stygian Vise and Rigwald's Quills. There was a lot of kiting with flares in the dark, off-screen TS spam, and certain nodes (especially the quadruple Essence fossil ones) were pretty much undoable. One thing I found helpful was to swap my Cinderswallow flask for an Alchemist Basalt Flask of the Order. That turned many 1-shots from rare mobs into 2-shots (along with Loreweave and legacy ToH), which ended up making a big difference in my ability to complete nodes. Apart from Aul, my damage felt fine around 750. But I feel I can't kill any bosses at this depth no matter what I swap around. Now I believe the build could probably go to depth 1000, especially if I make some changes to incorporate HH (prefer not to use mine since I think it makes the game ridiculous).

Looking forward to reading the discussion and comments for this build in 3.9.

I believe GGG mentioned that you'll be able to cancel out of the attack animation at any time when using Barrage support, but in standard w/ legacy items I also really doubt Barrage will be surpassed by Power Siphon.

I don't think there'll be sweeping changes made to the bow section of the guide, probably just a couple optimizations if I spot any. Although for bows I'm more uncertain whether or not Barrage will be superseded given all the new bow mechanics being introduced. I guess we'll find out in a day or two.

Well, looks like Point Blank has been nerfed by quite a bit. 30% instead of 50%. That 20% more damage differential will be sorely missed. Attack speed can roll one tier higher now on wands, but very unlikely anybody is going to be rolling that. Hopefully the improvements to wand base damage will compensate for this nerf.

Ouch dex stacking has been nerfed, hopefully by not too much.

The new improvements to shock/freeze sound interesting... but I think barrage damage per hit might still be a tad bit low for investment to be worthwhile. We'll have to see the numerical values. It might be possible for a moderately invested lightning-based wanders to potentially replace ele focus hmm.

And damn buffs to bosses across the board, as well as monster resistances, so essentially a nerf to dps.


And wow fml, they are nerfing the multimod. That's rather depressing and will make this build much harder to pull off since a lot of the items recommended here rely on multimodding. We'll have to see if the powercreep can compensate for that but this is looking grim.


Edit: okay that was an overreaction. Multimod nerf will probably affect overall damage by ~15-20%.

Hopefully the new support gems aren't too rare, I think they can compensate for a good portion of these nerfs.

-All wand basetypes now have 20% more base damage.

-Bows and Wands can now roll increased Attack Speed modifiers of one higher tier than previously (of Acclaim is now the new highest tier). Essence of Zeal has been updated to be consistent with this change.

This plus no nerfs to power siphon coming alongside the new barrage gem, think we might come out of this alive.

Some notable changes:

Crafted modifiers which grant Elemental or Chaos Resistance Penetration on weapons now grant up to 9 to 10% (from 14 to 16%).

The 'of Crafting' crafted suffix which previously allowed you to craft any number of additional mods on the item now allows you to craft up to three mods on the item. This affects existing items (items with the mod will now be limited to 2 additional crafts), however any items with more than the allowed number of crafted mods will keep those mods.

All wand basetypes now have 20% more base damage.

Bows and Wands can now roll increased Attack Speed modifiers of one higher tier than previously (of Acclaim is now the new highest tier). Essence of Zeal has been updated to be consistent with this change.

The Point Blank keystone now causes projectiles to deal 30% more damage to very close enemies (from 50%), dealing up to 30% less damage based on the distance the projectile travels before it hits (from 50% less).

Monster resistances throughout the game have been reviewed and made more consistent. In many cases this has resulted in more resistances on monsters.

Awakened Added Cold, Ele with Attack, Chain,

rough

Assassin's, Sniper and Recurve Bow basetypes each now have 6.7% base critical strike chance (From 6.5%). They now each have an implicit that grants +15 to 25% to Critical Strike Multiplier

-> Affect Arborix (which will be expensive anyways).

my ROA got a bit of a buff but i will be playing another build this league, good luck y'all

If we use Power Siphon with barrage support, when it already has its own extra projectiles, then we probably don't care all that much about adding any extra projectiles from dying sun?

If that's the case, is Pathfinder still the ascendancy you guys recommend?

I feel like Assassin might be a really strong choice especially if we will be maxing power charges for ST, aswell as its dmg boosts and general dmg reductions...gosh it has everything move speed too... I know there is a Lightning based Assassin wander guide that is popular too, with higher shock % being available to smaller hits now that build would benefit I guess. This type of build might also alleviate some of the conversion issues we would otherwise run into from the Watcher's eye Hatred mod that is going to cost people their right leg in currency.

Im also thinking of Scion (Slayer + X) which might be pretty good for handling some of the new bosses. You would gain access to much more life on the tree, and we don't know what kind of damage the new bosses will bring. And not just the conquerors probably more importantly the Metamorphs were going to be spawning in Tane's laboratory, which I assume are going to instanced content like Shaper/Elder fights?

Did they slap on that 20% more wand dmg to try and alleviate the 20% more that is lost from point blank?

accidental double post sorry.

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Bobirobsan1 wrote:

If we use Power Siphon with barrage support, when it already has its own extra projectiles, then we probably don't care all that much about adding any extra projectiles from dying sun?

If that's the case, is Pathfinder still the ascendancy you guys recommend?

I feel like Assassin might be a really strong choice especially if we will be maxing power charges for ST, aswell as its dmg boosts and general dmg reductions...gosh it has everything move speed too... I know there is a Lightning based Assassin wander guide that is popular too, with higher shock % being available to smaller hits now that build would benefit I guess. This type of build might also alleviate some of the conversion issues we would otherwise run into from the Watcher's eye Hatred mod that is going to cost people their right leg in currency.

Im also thinking of Scion (Slayer + X) which might be pretty good for handling some of the new bosses. You would gain access to much more life on the tree, and we don't know what kind of damage the new bosses will bring. And not just the conquerors probably more importantly the Metamorphs were going to be spawning in Tane's laboratory, which I assume are going to instanced content like Shaper/Elder fights?

Did they slap on that 20% more wand dmg to try and alleviate the 20% more that is lost from point blank?

Correct, Dying Sun will probably fall behind Atziri's Promise as the best single target DPS flask. The only issue with dropping Dying Sun is that you also lose 2-3 projectiles from KB which will affect your clear by quite a bit. This might make Dying Sun still the superior option for end-game.

I'm looking into it at the moment. I've theorycrafted with Assassin last league and concluded the single target is superior to any ranger ascendancy but it will be less tanky, and have issues with ailment immunity. It wasn't hard to make some modifications to my setup to make it Assassin viable. I think from the sample POB, I had 8.5mil shaper dps for Pathfinder, ~9.2mil for Deadeye and somewhere around 12mil for Assassin. Of course this is an overestimate for the latter two ascendancies b/c no perma flask sustain.

Scion wasn't that great for bossing mainly b/c it had around the same dps as Pathfinder but came with less tankiness and no perma flask sustain and no ailment immunity, making multi-phase bosses much harder. I doubt much has changed this patch but I'll look into it again.

The 20% wand base damage only affects phys conversion/impale wanders, but since this build has been gradually shifting towards ele the last few months, only half of the flat damage is derived from the weapon itself. So the 20% increase to wand base damage is more like a ~10% increase in overall DPS. This "buff" won't be able to fully cancel out the Point Blank nerf, which is more like a 15% reduction to overall DPS.


The buff to shock is interesting but that requires replacing Elemental Focus from the single target setup, which is a considerable loss of DPS, probably more than can be compensated with shock. And if Ele Focus is getting a buffed version, then there's even less of an incentive to drop it.

There's still a lot of testing I have to do; I want to figure out exactly how much of a buff Power Siphon is over Barrage. I'll let everyone know once I'm done with the calculations

Edit: With regards to Watcher's Eye being harder to obtain, I think I might convert this build into pure ele for this patch, but I'll have to look further into it to find out if that's really the best solution.

So I just read your barrage support + PS vs. barrage as main skill post calculations and I have to add that when they released the skill info at level 5 I did some of the same calculations myself and added to my PoB the effective multipliers to see which one would come on top. And at the time my conclusion was that for PS to be on top you need a level 21 (as it adds another projectile) and it ended up being around 8-10% more damage compared to the normal barrage (yes, i removed a support gem to count for barrage support). Altho for a dual-wielding setup it seems PS is weaker because one of the big strengths to dual-wielding is the more attack speed you get from the passive bonus and that gets destroyed by barrage support base attack time per projectile. I don't know if what I'm saying here is interesting for people in here, but I hope it helps a bit.

Edit1: forgot to mention this is for my standard wander, I assume a league wander will be affected roughly the same.

As a continuation to the edit for some additional info:
Because of multimod nerf now you'll need to craft with alt spam, beast imprint and regal, and in the end it will cost more BUT the result is that you'll have more base damage than before (not counting the wand base damage buff), because now you'll want something like merciless + flaring + new t1 attack speed to multimod ele pen + crit chance (for a similar style of the current wand). This means wanders are back to being gated behind huge amounts of wealth (which was kinda still the case in the past few leagues, but it's been really cheap compared to the old days of wanding as LL). The biggest loss in my opinion will be the gloves as the crafted mods for gloves are unrivalled for dps increases (better than a legacy tombfist, aka with attack speed, if you can get intimidate somewhere else) but hopefully with a bit more theorycrafting and shuffling mods around it won't hurt too bad to drop some dps crafted mods from the gloves for rolled ones, I imagine you can do something like t1 life + t1 attack speed + something else and multimod the rest.

Edit2: I guess I'll leave the effective calculation for attack speed modifier from the barrage support (assuming it is static and doesn't change with gem levels) for anyone interested in their theorycrafting before localidentity updates the forked pob:
(1-(1.05^<amount of projs>)^(-1))% less attack speed