AI can generate portaits indistinguishable from real human faces. what does this mean?

NemoJr "Off-topic chat that I'm enjoying perhaps a bit too much:"
Likewise :)

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NemoJr wrote:

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erdelyii wrote:

Do you like it in Istanbul?

As a local, yeah. Not much to complain about -- it's your run-of-the-mill metropolitan city, if a bit on the 'historical' side. Can't imagine it being much different than living in London or Tokyo, provided you speak the local language.

And I'd say it's relatively tourist-friendly. Transportation is robust enough, and there's no shortage of youngsters who speak English. Just don't give taxi drivers the benefit of the doubt (in terms of pricing) and you should be fine. :)

Run of the mill metropolitan city that was founded in ... 667 BC, and dates back much further. Ha! It's all relative I guess... and maybe the old quarter is small?

Ah, taxi drivers are the same the world over :)

The city I am in - Melbourne -was founded in 1835. 1,835 years is still less old than Istanbul. Of course, the Indigenous history here goes back possibly 60,000 years. There are whispers of it and real sites like this one nearby, the Ngargee Tree. Some say it's 700 years old, and it definitely at least 300. It's a deceptive picture because it's in the inner city. Was fortunate timing the cockatoo flew in there.



Overall, the city is fairly new, and pretty ok to live in.

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NemoJr wrote:

Ah, travel agencies and their promotional materials. Almost as entertaining as the tourists themselves.

It's interesting the idea of people the travel companies appeal to.

100 m from a carpark, a maccas, and 1,000 apartments.
Which is probably a good sell for a lot of people, come to think of it.

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NemoJr wrote:

That's actually kind of a soft spot for me, but in a good way. War usually tends to result in generations of 'bad blood' between the sides. This is one of the few precious exceptions.

Maybe it was a consequence of Aussies and Kiwis being brought over by the boatload to fight a country they had no quarrel with before, "for the empire". Or maybe a few inspirational words were enough to salve both peoples' collective consciousnesses and turn enmity into camaraderie.

Whatever the case, I'm happy with where we ended up.

All jokes aside about the drunken Aussies I believe we do conduct ourselves with respect over there on the ANZAC pilgrimages.

When you said where you were I smiled and thought of the WW1 connection. We don't have that with any other place, maybe a little with the Western part of France. I think the respect was always there for Turkish soldiers.

It was a brutal hellscape, Gallipoli.

Where this happened.

I found this, from 2006

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Some descendants of wartime foes can march on Anzac Day, the Victorian RSL [Returned Servicemen's League] has ruled for the first time.

But the ruling applies only to descendants of World War I Turkish soldiers, because they were "a very honorable" enemy, according to the Victorian RSL president, Major-General David McLachlan.

The endorsement does not extend to families of German, Japanese, Italian or North Vietnamese. "I could never ever see, in Victoria, Japanese veterans of the Second World War marching in an Anzac Day march," Major-General McLachlan said. "They were a dreaded enemy that was despised by the Australian veterans."

There's that nostalgia thread in General where Charan points out that "Jap" is a racist insult. Indeed. It's deep and bitter and racist with layers of personal angst from ww2 I'm pretty sure. It's fading, the true knowledge of why it's so heartfelt and intentional, as most of the veterans are dead. The stories live on and fictions are written based on it all, and by god, terrible stuff.

We grew up with a different Japan, of course.

Gallipoli is the stuff of myth here, and it's drummed into us, but even sifting through the nationalistic glorification of a senseless waste and the image of the men as "bronzed larrikins from the bush" on the part of the ANZACS, there are so many stories of incredible resourcefulness and bravery shown by ordinary people on both sides.

Lest we forget.

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Run of the mill metropolitan city that was founded in ... 667 BC, and dates back much further. Ha! It's all relative I guess... and maybe the old quarter is small?

Haha, I meant that from the perspective of an equally run-of-the-mill big city dweller. As much as I'm teasing them here, a well-informed tourist probably knows more about this city than I do.

Recently there's been a lot of underground development, and a proportionate amount of archeological discoveries -- I would expect nothing less from the "crossroads of the old world". But as important as they may be in the grand scheme of things, their biggest effect on locals is making them grumpy because the subway construction is taking too damn long. City kids and their first world problems, amirite? :P

And thanks for the Melbourne trivia. Reminds me of the late-game cities I founded in Civ5, and how great they became with proper investment. :)

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All jokes aside about the drunken Aussies I believe we do conduct ourselves with respect over there on the ANZAC pilgrimages.

I think it's safe to say anyone who'd travel halfway around the world to "pay their respects" would indeed be respectful. I'm more concerned about the locals behaving themselves, if I'm perfectly honest.

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I think the respect was always there for Turkish soldiers.

The rational part of me tells me not to be proud (or ashamed) of things I had no control over. "National history" would be one such thing. That said, I allow myself this fuzzy feeling I get whenever I hear the "honorable enemy" description.

And again, if it results in the grandchildren of former enemies to mourn their losses side-by-side, I have no complaints.

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There's that nostalgia thread in General where Charan points out that "Jap" is a racist insult.

I wish it weren't. Then we would have a short noun in English (like "Turk" or "Brit") to refer to Japanese people.


Some thoughts:

You'll notice how the word "Jew" is currently hanging by a thread; it entirely depends on context whether you'll offend someone with it. Tomorrow, who knows?

Or what about the "N word" that you're seemingly only allowed to use if you're black*? A word that basically means "black" (the color) in Spanish/Italian/Portuguese...


It always pisses me off when people take an otherwise innocent (and useful) word and drive it out of common parlance with their bigotry. And they're allowed to get away with it.

We need more words, people. Not fewer.

/rant


* Fun fact: Calling someone with dark skin "African-American" or something similar is actually racist if they're not of African descent (Caribbeans and Native Australians come to mind).

:)

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Run of the mill metropolitan city that was founded in ... 667 BC, and dates back much further. Ha! It's all relative I guess... and maybe the old quarter is small?

Haha, I meant that from the perspective of an equally run-of-the-mill big city dweller. As much as I'm teasing them here, a well-informed tourist probably knows more about this city than I do.

Recently there's been a lot of underground development, and a proportionate amount of archeological discoveries -- I would expect nothing less from the "crossroads of the old world". But as important as they may be in the grand scheme of things, their biggest effect on locals is making them grumpy because the subway construction is taking too damn long. City kids and their first world problems, amirite? :P

And thanks for the Melbourne trivia. Reminds me of the late-game cities I founded in Civ5, and how great they became with proper investment. :)[/quote]

It's a clash of worlds, a construction crew working to a schedule, and archeology rules that halt all progress when something is dug up. It happens here, too, though far less frequently than under istanbul I can imagine.

Sometimes the crews get watched, if it's a known hotbed of artefacts area - the temptation to just keep digging and toss the junk aside must be enormous.

Never played Civilisation. I hear it's fun though.

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NemoJr wrote:

The rational part of me tells me not to be proud (or ashamed) of things I had no control over. "National history" would be one such thing. That said, I allow myself this fuzzy feeling I get whenever I hear the "honorable enemy" description.

And again, if it results in the grandchildren of former enemies to mourn their losses side-by-side, I have no complaints.

Yes, it's a tricky on, national pride. I think in that case it's less about political borders than about culture and shared narrative.

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There's that nostalgia thread in General where Charan points out that "Jap" is a racist insult.

"

NemoJr wrote:

I wish it weren't. Then we would have a short noun in English (like "Turk" or "Brit") to refer to Japanese people.


Some thoughts:

You'll notice how the word "Jew" is currently hanging by a thread; it entirely depends on context whether you'll offend someone with it. Tomorrow, who knows?

Or what about the "N word" that you're seemingly only allowed to use if you're black*? A word that basically means "black" (the color) in Spanish/Italian/Portuguese...


It always pisses me off when people take an otherwise innocent (and useful) word and drive it out of common parlance with their bigotry. And they're allowed to get away with it.

We need more words, people. Not fewer.

/rant


* Fun fact: Calling someone with dark skin "African-American" or something similar is actually racist if they're not of African descent (Caribbeans and Native Australians come to mind).

:)

I respectfully disagree.

-on the N-word being simply a word for black. It's got such a loaded history it's not "just" a word. I think to say we should drop all the loading and just use it invalidates what happened to people, and still does.

African American Registry article -- N_____ (The Word), A brief history

-Jew is a bit different. Depends on the context and intent. Very few places/ instances where Jew is the correct choice over Jewish, though as so often people are bigoted using the word Jew. Unless you are a Jew, I guess. seems so.

-Fun fact: people don't say Native Australian. Aborigine is racist, Aboriginal is not.

-It's all super complex and well worth asking the people in question what they think and prefer in terms of words, if possible.

Or we can just make dumb meme jokes to deconstruct race.

Istanbul's been a melting pot for a long time?

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I respectfully disagree.

-on the N-word being simply a word for black. It's got such a loaded history it's not "just" a word. I think to say we should drop all the loading and just use it invalidates what happened to people, and still does.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying we should disregard common sense and just use all those offensive words, consequences be damned. Not at all.

I'm salty because people are (or were) allowed to turn those once innocent words into all sorts of slurs, and we can't seem to figuratively slap them on the back of the head and say: "No. Don't do that." when a trend first starts to emerge.

Do note that the article you linked uses, almost word-for-word, the same expression I used, for a similar purpose ("...simply the color Black in Spanish and Portuguese.").


The 'memeing' thing is actually a more complicated matter than meets the eye. Yes, there's the risk of making light of a serious issue and therefore allowing problematic behavior to become more commonplace / acceptable. But on the other hand, humor can be a strong tool in the hands of a critic; sometimes all you need to do to highlight the stupidity / futility of one's position is well-placed and thorough mockery.

"Racism is stupid. So if you're a racist, you're stupid." can be a very strong 'guiding force' for the masses in the opposing direction, deceptive in its simplicity.

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-Fun fact: people don't say Native Australian. Aborigine is racist, Aboriginal is not.

I was going by the all-too-popular "Native American" example, keeping in mind the whole "Indian" debacle. (Thanks, Columbus!)

After skimming through that article, I'm still not sure what the "PC" way to refer to the indigenous people of Australia is. I'm glad I didn't say "Aborigines", but I'm also confused now. Help me out?

I'm not big on 'overwhelming political correctness' (worth another discussion, perhaps) but I would hate to offend someone out of ignorance.

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Istanbul's been a melting pot for a long time?

At least as far back as the 15th century, yeah. Especially in terms of religion.

I hope that wasn't a loaded question related to the above misunderstanding. :)



Random thought: I wonder how long our little off-topic chat (or indeed our accounts) would survive in the Blizzard forums. Talk about 'OPC'. :)

Will reply properly when I am next in. Suffice to say, my apologies for misunderstanding your meaning. I quite agree that PC can be too earnest and serious. Wasn't a loaded question, am trying to picture your locale and probably should just have asked that and another one about what you did mean in the light of that instead of bashing into the interpretation.

Anyway! Aboriginal is the word for the people.
Back in a bit Nemo :)