{3.10} Speaker for the Dead | The Mass Minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide 💀

Thank you so much for the help, i ended up not having to change my gear, just had to learn UE patterns.
And thank you Herc for this build, this was my first UE kill in whole 600h.

This build has been a blast and it enabled me to kill UE for the first time ever! While I want to thank @Hercanic and all the others who had sacrificed the living so we all could raise the dead, I also seek some guidance.

My current PoB: https://pastebin.com/s0Di4uQ5

If someone could at least skim through and point out where I could make improvements (feels like I lack both in def and dmg departments) that would be great!

Cheers to all!

So as we come to the end of the season, I realize I have a couple of questions about the build where things still don't quite make sense to me.

(1) Why are you putting Zombies in the weapon and Skellies in the Helm? We only pull out the bone bois on bosses as the big Vaal smash, so a few percent less damage from them isn't all that bad. Meanwhile the zombies that we're clearing which benefit greatly from the +3 to Socketed Gems in the helm.

Sure, if you can get +1 to Gems *and* +2 to supports *and* Empower 4, you can get level 29 (30?) Zombies... but they still only have three links, one gem and two on the weapon. (Remember you need two open prefixes and an open suffix to multicraft Minion Damage and +2 Support, which means the starting weapon can only have two links and the +1)

In the helm, the zombies get four links easily (Minion Damage on the helm) and are still level 26. Plus you can easily add some of the real heavy hitting gems like Melee Phys, WED, Feeding Frenzy.

(2) Maim seems to be a common thing to go for on the weapon. But Maim doesn't seem to give a huge damage boost, at least not in POB. I'm actually using an Elder claw with Melee Phys, Multistrike, and Increased Crit Damage (because those Power Charges pack a wallop).

But, for instance, socketing Maim in my helm instead of WED or Melee Phys just... is meh. What am I missing?

Editing in a third question: Is there a particular reason for Faster Projectiles over, say, Increased Crit Damage or Controlled Destruction or something similar?

----

Of course, once all the nice Shaper and Elder pieces become almost nonexistent, a lot of this theorycrafting goes out the window, as those extra links stop existing. I'm still planning to use this as my starter build, we'll see how it goes.

My POB if anyone wants to use it in response to my questions:

https://pastebin.com/S7S76pKV

Can some1 help me with fortify boots or any boots/ring /amulet?i'm missing only those atm

Hello, I've been following the updated (I hope) version of this guide posted at around page 123) and it says to use Multistrike for a slot in a minion helm.
When I was calculating in PoB:
[Skeletons-Feeding Frenzy-Melee Phys-Multistrike]
had -90k (Effective) Skill Hit Damage than
[Skeletons-Feeding Frenzy-Melee Phys-Ruthless]

Is there a practical reasoning for this difference where Multistrike comes out on top? When I swapped out Feeding Frenzy for Fortify it also went to a bigger figure.

Would there be a way I can utilise the "socketed gems are supported by level 18 burning damage" in the helmet? Didn't seen to work with Added Fire Damage Support.

Thanks a lot and if any other improvements to my build (probably my weapon and 6l next) may be pointed out I shall start investing as I'm broke after the helm purchase haha.

Hello, please take a look at PM.

@ Kirian42:

"

Why are you putting Zombies in the weapon and Skellies in the Helm?

Skeletons have twice the DPS of Zombies, and Vaal Skeletons deal more than twice that of Skeletons. That's a difference of 6:1.

Zombies are harder to replace, so level-stacking is great for them because they gain both life and damage at the same time. +1, +2 Supports, L4 Empower = +7 levels. With +1 corruption and +2 from Necromancer, they'll be Level 30 Zombies.

Admittedly, this lost value in 3.8 with the accuracy and life changes, but level-stacking is still competitive for Zombies.

Skeletons have many uses beyond bosses. They can be placed wherever you need support, especially when something dangerous lurks behind a horde. No corpses required. They don't follow, so you can spread them out to cover multiple directions or leave them to sweep out rooms you'd rather run past. These are great properties for events like Blights, Incursions, Legions, Breaches, Syndicate Research, etc.

In any case, you can always freely swap the two, since they can use the same supports.

"

Maim doesn't seem to give a huge damage boost, at least not in POB.

Make sure "Is the enemy Maimed?" is checked under Configuration. If you remove Maim, turn it back off.

The value of Maim for pure physical becomes (1.3 more phys * 1.14 debuff =) 48% more damage. Since we're using Hatred, Spirit Offering, and Grip of the Council, the weight of the phys debuff diminishes.

For Skeletons, their damage breaks down to 55% phys, 36% cold, and 9% Chaos. Thus Maim's debuff can be recalculated to (14 * 0.55 =) 7.7% more damage for Skeletons. Unless Zombies have Added Fire Damage Support, they'll be the same. (1.3 * 1.077 =) 40% more damage for Zombies. It's a bit weaker than some other options for Zombies, but Maim pulls ahead of everything else because the debuff also benefits Skeletons, Vaal Skeletons, Phantasms, and the Holy Relic/Carrion Golem/etc. There's also the utility of the 30% slow from Maim as well.

"

Increased Crit Damage (because those Power Charges pack a wallop).

It'll be worth ~20-36% more damage.

103% crit multi has no effect unless there's a crit, so you can just multiply by crit chance to eyeball its value. Minions are monsters, and all monsters have a 5% base crit chance. Three Power Charges grant 600% crit chance to monsters, which becomes (5% * 7 =) 35% chance to critically strike. (103% * 0.35 =) 36% more damage on average. But only if your minions have those Power Charges.

Monsters also have a base crit multi of 30%. A Kingmaker AG can add another 50% multi. This diminishes the weight of the Crit Damage Support. The difference between 180% crit damage and 283% crit damage is 57%, meaning the support's relative More value will only be ~half as effective. In this situation, it's only worth ~20% more damage.

The true merit of the Crit Damage Support is for stronger ailments. For us, that'd be longer freezes.

"

Is there a particular reason for Faster Projectiles

The support doubles the area coverage of Phantasms, for starters. They can then hit the entirety of a pack. They can reach the edge of the screen from your central position. Higher range means less movement and more damage output.

Frost Sentinels hit much sooner as well. The half-second when you first encounter a pack is the most dangerous. You want them dead or frozen before their first attack launches and possibly puts you in danger. Faster projectiles = faster hits = faster kills = faster Phantasms out in the field.

Trash monsters do not have the health of bosses. Our clear skill does not need anywhere near as much damage as our single-target skill. People tend to become enamored by bigger numbers, but lose sight of what's important for our trash-clearing skill: area coverage & speed > pure damage.

Start up a fresh PoB. Add Raise Spectre. Set its level to whatever monster level of maps you're concerned with. Let's say L23, for level 83 Spectres (T16 maps). Now add some of the types of monsters you're likely to encounter. How about a Fighting Bull, who has a 238% life multiplier, and a Fetid Maw, who has a 100% life multiplier. Go to Calcs, check "Show Minion Stats", and look to the right for the box labeled "Life:".

Fighting Bull: 36,054 life
Fetid Maw: 15,149 life

So what if we raise our Spectres from 100k to 150k DPS? Either way they are annihilating these trash monsters in the first volley. Even if it took one or two fewer casts to kill, if that comes at the cost of coverage or hit delay, then any gains are lost by them over-casting (because target hasn't been hit by the first volley yet) or having to turn and cast at the remaining mobs they missed due to less coverage.

For tougher rares, we have our Zombies. The sooner we clear the obstructing trash, the sooner our Zombies can target and surround the rare.

Magic = 187% more life, +75% from levels 68-84
Rare = 463% more life, +100% from levels 68-84

Assuming the two life modifiers are multiplicative with each other rather than additive, then a Rare Fighting Bull would have (36054 * 5.63 * 2 =) 405,968 life.

Spectres/Phantasms = Trash clear = White mobs = Numerous and scattered
Zombies = Support DPS = Blue/Yellow mobs = One or two per ~screen
Skeletons = Boss DPS = Orange mobs = Uncommon but dangerous, kill ASAP

"

once all the nice Shaper and Elder pieces become almost nonexistent, a lot of this theorycrafting goes out the window

The dreaded summoner nerf on top of possibly losing our bonus sockets will hit us hard. We can still level-stack with Zombies, though, and Skeletons would only lose one support. As long as GGG doesn't nuke the entire playstyle from orbit, this build should still perform well.

Here's to hoping the Conquerors have something equivalent in their mod pools! Or that Shaper/Elder content isn't overly rare, since crafting on any ole Influenced piece is always an option.

I wanted to express my absolute gratitude for taking so much time, to write such an excellent guide. and especially explaining all those little details !!! I am far off from an experienced player, although have been playing up and on, but never really high maps. I love summoner, with this guide came so much more understanding, although I still not feeling like a "pro", which is okay, I absolutely enjoyed leveling, I decided after blight , I will restart on Standard, since I have better gear and completely follow your guide.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you :)

"

Hercanic wrote:

Full Post/Discussion

@ Kirian42:

Full Post

"

Kirian42 wrote:

So as we come to the end of the season, I realize I have a couple of questions about the build where things still don't quite make sense to me.

(1) Why are you putting Zombies in the weapon and Skellies in the Helm? We only pull out the bone bois on bosses as the big Vaal smash, so a few percent less damage from them isn't all that bad. Meanwhile the zombies that we're clearing which benefit greatly from the +3 to Socketed Gems in the helm.

Sure, if you can get +1 to Gems *and* +2 to supports *and* Empower 4, you can get level 29 (30?) Zombies... but they still only have three links, one gem and two on the weapon. (Remember you need two open prefixes and an open suffix to multicraft Minion Damage and +2 Support, which means the starting weapon can only have two links and the +1)

In the helm, the zombies get four links easily (Minion Damage on the helm) and are still level 26. Plus you can easily add some of the real heavy hitting gems like Melee Phys, WED, Feeding Frenzy.

(2) Maim seems to be a common thing to go for on the weapon. But Maim doesn't seem to give a huge damage boost, at least not in POB. I'm actually using an Elder claw with Melee Phys, Multistrike, and Increased Crit Damage (because those Power Charges pack a wallop).

But, for instance, socketing Maim in my helm instead of WED or Melee Phys just... is meh. What am I missing?

Editing in a third question: Is there a particular reason for Faster Projectiles over, say, Increased Crit Damage or Controlled Destruction or something similar?

----

Of course, once all the nice Shaper and Elder pieces become almost nonexistent, a lot of this theorycrafting goes out the window, as those extra links stop existing. I'm still planning to use this as my starter build, we'll see how it goes.

My POB if anyone wants to use it in response to my questions:

https://pastebin.com/S7S76pKV

"

Why are you putting Zombies in the weapon and Skellies in the Helm?

Skeletons have twice the DPS of Zombies, and Vaal Skeletons deal more than twice that of Skeletons. That's a difference of 6:1.

Zombies are harder to replace, so level-stacking is great for them because they gain both life and damage at the same time. +1, +2 Supports, L4 Empower = +7 levels. With +1 corruption and +2 from Necromancer, they'll be Level 30 Zombies.

Admittedly, this lost value in 3.8 with the accuracy and life changes, but level-stacking is still competitive for Zombies.

Skeletons have many uses beyond bosses. They can be placed wherever you need support, especially when something dangerous lurks behind a horde. No corpses required. They don't follow, so you can spread them out to cover multiple directions or leave them to sweep out rooms you'd rather run past. These are great properties for events like Blights, Incursions, Legions, Breaches, Syndicate Research, etc.

In any case, you can always freely swap the two, since they can use the same supports.

"

Maim doesn't seem to give a huge damage boost, at least not in POB.

Make sure "Is the enemy Maimed?" is checked under Configuration. If you remove Maim, turn it back off.

The value of Maim for pure physical becomes (1.3 more phys * 1.14 debuff =) 48% more damage. Since we're using Hatred, Spirit Offering, and Grip of the Council, the weight of the phys debuff diminishes.

For Skeletons, their damage breaks down to 55% phys, 36% cold, and 9% Chaos. Thus Maim's debuff can be recalculated to (14 * 0.55 =) 7.7% more damage for Skeletons. Unless Zombies have Added Fire Damage Support, they'll be the same. (1.3 * 1.077 =) 40% more damage for Zombies. It's a bit weaker than some other options for Zombies, but Maim pulls ahead of everything else because the debuff also benefits Skeletons, Vaal Skeletons, Phantasms, and the Holy Relic/Carrion Golem/etc. There's also the utility of the 30% slow from Maim as well.

"

Increased Crit Damage (because those Power Charges pack a wallop).

It'll be worth ~20-36% more damage.

103% crit multi has no effect unless there's a crit, so you can just multiply by crit chance to eyeball its value. Minions are monsters, and all monsters have a 5% base crit chance. Three Power Charges grant 600% crit chance to monsters, which becomes (5% * 7 =) 35% chance to critically strike. (103% * 0.35 =) 36% more damage on average. But only if your minions have those Power Charges.

Monsters also have a base crit multi of 30%. A Kingmaker AG can add another 50% multi. This diminishes the weight of the Crit Damage Support. The difference between 180% crit damage and 283% crit damage is 57%, meaning the support's relative More value will only be ~half as effective. In this situation, it's only worth ~20% more damage.

The true merit of the Crit Damage Support is for stronger ailments. For us, that'd be longer freezes.

"

Is there a particular reason for Faster Projectiles

The support doubles the area coverage of Phantasms, for starters. They can then hit the entirety of a pack. They can reach the edge of the screen from your central position. Higher range means less movement and more damage output.

Frost Sentinels hit much sooner as well. The half-second when you first encounter a pack is the most dangerous. You want them dead or frozen before their first attack launches and possibly puts you in danger. Faster projectiles = faster hits = faster kills = faster Phantasms out in the field.

Trash monsters do not have the health of bosses. Our clear skill does not need anywhere near as much damage as our single-target skill. People tend to become enamored by bigger numbers, but lose sight of what's important for our trash-clearing skill: area coverage & speed > pure damage.

Start up a fresh PoB. Add Raise Spectre. Set its level to whatever monster level of maps you're concerned with. Let's say L23, for level 83 Spectres (T16 maps). Now add some of the types of monsters you're likely to encounter. How about a Fighting Bull, who has a 238% life multiplier, and a Fetid Maw, who has a 100% life multiplier. Go to Calcs, check "Show Minion Stats", and look to the right for the box labeled "Life:".

Fighting Bull: 36,054 life
Fetid Maw: 15,149 life

So what if we raise our Spectres from 100k to 150k DPS? Either way they are annihilating these trash monsters in the first volley. Even if it took one or two fewer casts to kill, if that comes at the cost of coverage or hit delay, then any gains are lost by them over-casting (because target hasn't been hit by the first volley yet) or having to turn and cast at the remaining mobs they missed due to less coverage.

For tougher rares, we have our Zombies. The sooner we clear the obstructing trash, the sooner our Zombies can target and surround the rare.

Magic = 187% more life, +75% from levels 68-84
Rare = 463% more life, +100% from levels 68-84

Assuming the two life modifiers are multiplicative with each other rather than additive, then a Rare Fighting Bull would have (36054 * 5.63 * 2 =) 405,968 life.

Spectres/Phantasms = Trash clear = White mobs = Numerous and scattered
Zombies = Support DPS = Blue/Yellow mobs = One or two per ~screen
Skeletons = Boss DPS = Orange mobs = Uncommon but dangerous, kill ASAP

"

once all the nice Shaper and Elder pieces become almost nonexistent, a lot of this theorycrafting goes out the window

The dreaded summoner nerf on top of possibly losing our bonus sockets will hit us hard. We can still level-stack with Zombies, though, and Skeletons would only lose one support. As long as GGG doesn't nuke the entire playstyle from orbit, this build should still perform well.

Here's to hoping the Conquerors have something equivalent in their mod pools! Or that Shaper/Elder content isn't overly rare, since crafting on any ole Influenced piece is always an option.

Wow, thanks for the detailed discussion! And of course for the build.

I didn't realize Faster Projectiles also increased range. That's most definitely a good reason to use them.

I think the issue with Maim is that I'm using Triad Grip for the 100% cold conversion. Because the Maim debuff is "[enemy] takes 14% increased physical damage" and not "[ally] deals 14% increased physical damage," and my minions aren't doing any physical damage, they just get the 30% more damage from Maim... whereas WED gives 54% and Melee Phys gives 49%. Either that, or it's a bug in POB?

Edit: And now POB is actually suggesting Multistrike, where it wasn't before, as better than both WED and Melee Phys. What gives, POB?

So speaking of gem level stacking, is there some reason not to try for a +1 All/+1 Int/+1 Str weapon? (Craft Multi, +2 Support, Minion Damage.) Only good for the 2H route of course. I see people doing that on bows all the time, not sure why we don't see them on anything else. It would give us Lv 25 Zombies/Skels plus Lv 8 Empower = Lvl 32?

This is my starter build next league, thanks so much for it! We'll see how well it survives nerfs.

@ everyone:
Sometimes it takes me a week or more to complete my reserved posts, which may go unnoticed by those I've responded to. I'd like to take this moment to cover those:

p274
5 replies @ Mykle_Ironborne, tkwondave, Kirian42, Dashbb, Hologram_o.

p275
5 replies @ Detoxed, Hologram_o, Kirian42, Swaggmann, Dashbb.

p276
6 replies @ Kirian42, tkwondave, xkuzanx, silas66, Drakoturt, thegamingkage.

p283
11 replies @ Hologram_o, Larabiata4711, Drakoturt, xaeror35, not3not4, thegamingkage, Dashbb, Kirian42, CanadaDemon, alatar, Miraculix2xx.

p284
3 replies @ notrealife, oPuTTo, Dashbb.



Upcoming 3.9 Divination cards!

The Bones (L21 Vaal Skeletons) and The Craving (Unending Hunger jewel) mean we'll have a way to farm these items. This is great news for SSF and any league like Blight where Necromancer items explode in price. Unending Hunger, for example, normally only ever a few chaos, rose to multiple exalts this league.

---

@ Kirian42:

"

I think the issue with Maim is that I'm using Triad Grip

Yeah, in that case Maim is just a simple 30% more damage and 30% movement slow.

"

now POB is actually suggesting Multistrike

Multistrike isn't correctly modeled in PoB, as it only accounts for the attack speed against the less damage, leaving out the bonus damage from repeats.

PoB hasn't received an update since September. Did you install a fork?

"

is there some reason not to try for a +1 All/+1 Int/+1 Str weapon?

They'd be tricky to get, requiring fossils, and are only worth one level each = ~10% more life/damage.

PRE: +1
PRE: +2 Supports craft
PRE: Increased Minion Damage craft (81% 2H; 54% 1H)

SUF: Multicraft
SUF: +1 INT (10%) vs. Maim (30%)
SUF: +1 STR (10%) vs. Increased Minion Attack/Cast Speed craft (28% 2H; 15% 1H)

The 2H attack/cast speed craft is worth ~14% more damage (and better responsiveness while clearing). With Maim, that's (1.3 * 1.14 =) 48% more damage vs. ~21% more from the two levels.

---

@ gawddawg:

"

PoB ... Multistrike ... had -90k (Effective) Skill Hit Damage than ... Ruthless

Multistrike is actually worth (0.9 * 1.44 * (1 + 1.22 + 1.44) / 3 =) 58% more damange, but PoB doesn't account for the Repeat damage bonuses.

"

Feeding Frenzy ... Fortify

Configuration -> Skill Options -> Feeding Frenzy: Is Feeding Frenzy Active? [checkbox]

"

way I can utilise the "socketed gems are supported by level 18 burning damage" in the helmet?

For minions, there's Infernal Legion Support and Tukohama Vanguard Spectres. But we don't use either in this build.

For a niche use, my plan for Hall of Grandmasters is using Skitterbots with Infernal Legion. Unfortunately, the Minion Life Support mod on your helm would throw off reservation costs.

"

[gear]

I'd recommend Melee Splash for Skeletons. They perform much better whenever you want to use them during normal gameplay. Swap it for a single-target gem only in situations where you feel you'll really need it, like Uber Elder.

Drop Empower for Minion Damage or Ruthless (Slam + stun is nice) on Zombies. +2 levels isn't worth the socket. You only want Empower when it can give +4-6 levels.

Get a 6L ES chest with an open prefix so you can craft 10% Life as Extra ES (Gravicius unveil). It's worth ~1k ES all on its own.

Seek to upgrade your boots to ones with 30-35% movement speed and ~100 life. Your helm is another place missing ~100 life.

For your weapon, you can either aim for level-stacking (+1, +2 Support craft, Maim) or just go for as many melee supports as possible (cheaper). For the latter, both Shaper and Elder have options:

---

@ Horswag:

"

my first UE kill in whole 600h

Congratulations! =oD