How far could this build push in delve?
-Or if someone who has pushed far with this reads this, please reply :)
Thankyou.
Currently with this league, I pushed into 220 easily, which is where the good stuff drops.
270-300 is about where I have found it moderately tolerable. It's not a dedicated delving build, but gains on hit really shine when exploring the darkness. It's my best darkness delver build by far for this reason.
Being able to stand in the darkness and splash around on hidden monsters for up to 30 seconds while you look at the minimap and pick a route to prizes, and then casually toss down a flare so you can sear a path there ... priceless.
That said, delve mods will rip you a new one once in a while. The difficulty curve per unit depth has gotten steeper, so delving at 300 now is going to feel like delving at 400-500 used to feel before 3.8.
[19:36]#Mirror_stacking_clown: try smoke ganja every day for 10 years and do memory game
Hey man the build looks awesome but i wanted to know if you felt it was SSF viable not just league starter viable because theres points in the guide where you make it sound as if certain uniques (like theifs torment) are almost mandatory to make the build function.
Played this on blight on the PC. Very fun build, would like to see the 3.9 version, might not league start with it but will certainly use it as second character!!
Played this on blight on the PC. Very fun build, would like to see the 3.9 version, might not league start with it but will certainly use it as second character!!
"
Sorry but i dont have time to update the page for 3.9, but we dont have a big changes so the build is still great
-Multistrike fix giving us less dps penality from gem
-NEW Tribal Fury passive point on tree allow us to target 1 more nearby enemy
-Remove ancestral call dps penality on lvl 20 gem
[3.7] Change
Spoiler
In 3.7 there are a lot of change for melee skills:
"
-first Molten Strike gem:
Now deals base damage equal to, and has an added damage effectiveness of, 120% at gem level 1 (unchanged), up to 130% at gem level 20 (from 160%).
Now adds 2 to 3 fire damage to attacks at gem level 1, up to 75 to 113 at gem level 20.
Now requires that you hit an enemy in order to produce projectiles, and splits the number of projectiles it produces evenly among all targets (if it can).
Projectiles now deal 50% less damage at all levels (from 40% less at gem level 1, to 30% less at gem level 20 previously).
Damage over time from projectiles now deals 50% less damage at all levels (from 40% less at gem level 1, to 30% less at gem level 20 previously).
Now has +2 to melee range at gem level 1 (from 0), up to +6 at gem level 20 (from +2).
This mean that you cant use no longer ancestral call on bosses --> swap it for fire pen.
Now we can reach 100% accuracy on jugg and glad.
Flat damage on gem = more confortable for levelling.
20% less damage from projectiles.
Lot more melee range.
"
-Multistrike:
Now grants supported skills 35% more melee attack speed at gem level 1 (from 75% more), up to 44% more at gem level 20 (from 94% more).
Now causes the first repeat of supported skills to deal 40% more damage at gem level 1, up to 50% more at gem level 20.
Now causes the second repeat of supported skills to deal 80% more damage at gem level 1, up to 99% more at gem level 20
Give to us less attack speed.
"
1 less skill point to get vitality void for cham and jugg, more change for gladiator.
"
-Immortal call:
No longer makes you immune to physical damage for a duration.
Base duration is now 1 second at all gem levels (from 0.4 seconds).
Now has an instant cast time (from 0.85 seconds).
Now causes you to take 25% less elemental damage and 25% less physical damage at gem level 1, with the values growing based on the gem level, up to 34% less elemental damage and 35% less physical damage at gem level 20.
Now consumes endurance charges up to a maximum of 5, causing you to take 15% less physical damage per endurance charge consumed for the buff's duration.
Increases the duration of the buff by 20% for each endurance charge consumed.
Now has a 3 second cooldown, which does not recover during its effect.
Shares its cooldown with other guard skills (Steelskin and Molten Shell).
This mean that blood rage/pantheon trick no longer trigger, but give to us elemental damage reduction also.
"
OFF-META:
Price for this build are a lot more cheap right now.
like 10c grelwood, or 30c dying sun, only 1 ex xoph's blood etc...
[3.6] Change
Spoiler
tombfist and loreweave nerf:
-Tombfist no longer grants 6-10% increased Attack Speed.
-Loreweave now sets your Maximum Resistances to a maximum of 78% (from 80%)
On other side anger has a buff:
-Now causes you and nearby allies to deal 16 to 23 additional Fire Damage with Attacks at gem level 1 (from 12 to 21) and 109 to 155 additional Fire Damage with Attacks at gem level 20 (from 83 to 138).
-Grelwood price from 2-3ex to 30c.
"celestial punishmet" that now is called "divine judgement".
[3.5] ChangeChange, No Nerf
Spoiler
In a few words: less number of balls, more base damage
-Wildfire is now limited to 1 - No problem, put in its place a rare jew with life and dps.
-Grelwood Shank now has 185-215% (up from 170-190%) HYPE no comment.
-Molten strike now deals 120% of base damage at gem level 1, and 161% of base damage (up from 147%) at gem level 20 - HYPE again.(The nerf is on the price that is higher now)
-Projectiles deal 40% less damage at gem level 1, and 30% less damage (from 40%) at gem level 20.
-Molten enchant now has 2 additional projectiles from the Eternal Labyrinth (down from 3) - Personally, I've never used MS balls enchant in league (I only have it in std) and I did a lot of uber elder carry without that. (this nerf will probably drop the price of that ench)
-War banner is OP
[3.4] ChangeWE GOT A BUFF - 2 extra points
Spoiler
Few tree changes near holy dominion, we save 2 points on the new tree.
We can grab 2 extra life nodes or grab another jew socket
Some Follower Reviews
Spoiler
lzrproof wrote:
"
I just want to say thank you for your great work.
I started to play poe three month ago and i tried a few builds. But yours was the best so far. Your guide is perfect for beginners and i can play all content without problems.
Keep up the work. Peace
PhantomZA wrote:
"
So I've been looking for a build that I can mess around with and just have a blast and a half with. And I am happy that I found your build:D
Not only did you make it easy to follow and understand but you made the build fun to play:D Yes there are many other MS builds out there but I find yours just all rounded fun to play and not a build that needs to be almost identical or required expensive expensive gear to kill uber elder.
Thank you for making my love for MS and jugg come true and this is by far a build i plan to start each league with:D
Been able to do shaper, elder (needed help as i am nub at this fight) ,all guardians, elder guardians with ease. Of course my gear i have now is not what I used to complete these guys actually a lot less.
So thank you sir for this build:D You have made a great one:D
davidmatias wrote:
"
Thanks a lot for this build, one of the best ive seen here.
Ingebert wrote:
"
Tried a PP VD Juggernaut, but was bored pretty quickly. Changed the tree to the MS Jugg variant and boy is this guy tanky - compared to the champion variant you can play with a bad connection and your eyes closed.
Finally killed uberelder - thanks for the great build.
Gunnerator wrote:
"
another uber elder kill without helmet enchant
thank you for a great build
serialbäm wrote:
"
Uber Elder down first time with one Portal left.
I am a really new player (played a bit Harbinger but quit instantly) but was able to beat him.
Thank you so much to this amazing Build, that even a Newbie had the possibility to see the Endcontent.
eddy_alfa wrote:
"
Awesome build, facetanked turbo minotaur easily, even w/o xophs and loreweave, jug tankiness is really good.
Gunnerator wrote:
"
thank you once again, just wanted to say i managed to kill uber elder 2 times yesturday, i did die few times but that was down to my poor mechanics
Hey guys, always Dave here for another budget build!
I know there are many similar builds, but I wanted to create one of my own and the best choice (for me) is still the Champion (I've also tried Juggernaut and Gladiator and they work very well too)
ALERT: The guide is very detailed so please make sure to read all sections.
The guide is divided in 2 sections:
in the first section I've described a budget version with all the explanations of the mechanics. You can start the league and do all the content (except uber-atziri/uber-elder - you need more than 150c gear for these bosses :D ). You easily can run all t15 maps, Guardians, Shaper and farm currency (as you can see in the video section).
In the second section you'll find an improved version of the build (including POB), with more expensive gear. You can easily run all the bosses. Even uber-atziri/uber-elder.
Why molten strike
After Vaal Pact nerf, I always tried to create a tank build with a decent DPS:
with molten strike we spawn a lot of balls and the "life gain on hit" mechanic allows us to gain a lot of life in few time.
Played a lot of times a bloodseeker build for istant leech, and its awesome ofc, but with this build we have an insane life leech/GOH (near instant) and an awesome life sustain even if we arent attacking
Pro's
Budget to start (red maps on 50c)
Very good league starter
Tanky (6K+ HP with tabula, able to reach 8K+ HP, LGOH, regular leech, life regen)
Very good lab farmer (look video section)
No Vaal Pact
Great chance to improve the gear
DOT isn't so dangerous
No gems swap for bosses
Good sustain on long fight when you run out of flasks
Easy Uber Elder (if you know what to do)
No crazy value for a 6link elder helm
Con's
Melee (not the best clear speed, but not the worst)
Can't run ele reflect
Can't run no leech, but only 'cause you need mana leech (if you can get mana gain on hit on jewels, you can run no leech as well)
Need some investment for end game (like all other builds)
Mechanics
Spoiler
Important Melee damage don't work here, only melee attack speed will work: its a projectiles build! // NOTE: Don't look your tooltip in game, that is on melee skill, you can't see the balls dps on tooltip
LIFE GAIN ON HIT
Spoiler
The base of this build is "LIFE GAIN ON HIT" and molten strike with all its balls is awesome.
On budget version, we use ichimonji's and thief torment
we can run ez till red maps with thes weapons.
In the worst case we spawn like 150 balls per second. Multiplied per 28 LGOH is 4.200 hp per second, without counting the normal leech.
In the best case we spawn over 450 balls: about 12K HP per second.
When you have made some currency, go for grelwood and LGOH vitality watcher eye
You can run elder rings with LGOH and use herald of ash instead of vitality, BUT I still prefer vitality for more life regen.
AVATAR OF FIRE
Spoiler
Avatar of fire converts 50% of physical damage, lightning damage and cold damage to fire damage. However, the character cannot deal damage with any damage types except fire.
On molten strike we are able to convert all physical damage into fire (60% from molten, 50% avatar of fire - extra 10% doesn't count).
We can have avatar of fire from keystone (budget) or from xoph's blood amber amulet (more expensive).
You must gain only fire or physical damage from your gear.
If you gain cold or light damage, 50% of that element will be lost.
Chaos damage doesn't work at all.
Real Molten Strike DPS
Spoiler
If you wanna know your dps quickly, you must multiply your POB damage per second for your number of balls.
Example:
174.000x22 = 3.8M
This is a reference number to compare ur damage with other people without any tool calculator, isnt your real damage in game cuz NOT ALL balls hit the enemy. Depend on boss hit-box.
And attack speed dont work correctly on balls dps, cuz we use melee attack speed, so use the following tool to be sure on your reald dps.
I didn't make a POB for a budget version, you can find all POB under the improve section
"
Don't search for gems/links here
50c / lvl 88 5800hp -> This was my league starter gear in 3.5 that i farm red maps and uber lab
8c helm
5c each ichimonji
15c thief
3c boots
ssf gloves
ssf ammy
1c belt of the deceiver
If you are running champion or gladiator variant, the best thing (for me) is wearing hrimnor helm or kaom roots for perma freeze immunity
"
Flasks
10c wise
2c blood of the karui
ssf other rares (you need anti bleed and anti curse on magic flasks)
Dying sun will boost ur dps and tankiness cuz you'll have more balls, but it isn't mandatory
On this gear we are able to run all maps till t13/14, farm uber lab and make currency.
When you can get watcher eye and drop ur thief, go for rare rings like these
they are about 5c each
You can grab your life gain on hit on rare elder rings, but i prefer to run vitality.
On your rares, search for
Helm: life and res
Rings: add fire damage or/and add phys damage, life, res (you could search for ele damage with attack as well, but it will be expensive)
Gloves: add fire damage or/and add phys damage, life, res, attack speed
Boots: life, res, movement speed
Ammy: life, res, add fire damage or/and add phys damage, ele damage with attack
Rare belt instead of deceiver: life, res, ele damage with attack
We need some dex points somewhere (ammy or rings or jew)
Belt options:
For Champion, Perseverance for perma onslaught,
or the nomad, for more res, projectiles damage and dex
If you run the 1hand/shield gladiator variant, go for Lioneye's Remorse shield for budget (it's about 5c) and surrender if you have more currency.
Jewels stats:
Life (flat life on abyss jew works very well, cuz we have a lot of %increased life from tree), add fire damage (one hand, sword, attack), add phys damage (one hand, sword, attack), dex (if you need it), ele penetration, global phys damage, projectiles damage.
We dont have problem on attack speed. U can get it, but it's not so useful
Ascendancy/Pantheon/Bandits
Spoiler
Champion
Spoiler
In this order
Unstoppable hero
Conqueror
Worthy Foe
Fortitude
We must stay stationary for swords buffs, so we take fortitude for perma stun immunity.
If you wanna try Inspirational you need kaom roots for perma stun and drop fortitude. This works well with war banner.
The same goes for First strike: use kaoms and drop fortitude.
Juggernaut
Spoiler
In this order
Unstoppable
Undeniable
Unflinching
Unbreakable
With unstoppable we are immune to all slow mod (freeze/chill/temp chain)
With undeniable we get a lot of accuracy/attack speed (no worry about accuracy on gear)
Unflinching for free endurance charge
Unbreakable (life regen/armour/generic 5% less damage taken)
Gladiator
Spoiler
In this order
Painforged
Versatile combatant
Violent retaliation
Outmatch and Outlast
Go for versatile combatant to get spell block equal to block attack
Violent for more max block and dps for each successful block
Outmatch will give you free frenzy generation on kill (endurance if DW)
For Major God after immortal call change the best way is probably Solaris
For Minor God we use Tukohama for more life regen and phys reduction
Kill all bandits for extra points is the right way
How to choose your ascendancy
Spoiler
There isnt a better ascendancy, they all work very well, they just suit different playstyles... Let me explain:
Champion and Juggernaut are really similar, the only big difference is the perma freeze/stun immunity from jugg, so u don't need fortify/hrimnor/kaom roots like Champion or Gladiator.
We dont need any accuracy on gear on this 2 variant.
Tree is the same on Jugg/Champion.
Gladiator is more different, it can be run on Dual Wielding or 1 hand/sword + shield.
We can use xoph blood for more dps or anvil for full block.
While holding a shield we can reach 82% block on anvil / 75% on xoph.
On Dual Wielding we gain more dps and less block.
We need accuracy on rares for more dps, we have around 83%/86% chance to hit without accuracy (on champ we have 100%, on jugg we have 93%/95%).
Champion on the same gear has few more DPS than jugg
Juggernaut has few more defense
Gladiator is unbalanced on defense
Choose your playstyle
Skill tree
Spoiler
Keystone
Iron Grip
Elemental Overload
Avatar Of Fire (budget version before xoph's blood ofc)
If you wanna start the league with this build, look for claws (gain on hit implicit is broken), upgrade it at vendor in any town, if u dont drop a good rare one
i'm using these at lvl 40/act 4
-Always upgrade ur claws when you arrive in a new town, cuz the base damage is always higher
-Always upgrade ur life flask in a new town as well
Run Molten strike and ancestral call on act 1, add faster attack in act 2. I run 3 link MS till act 4 (so I can run really smoothly), then I get 5-link body armour for 1 chaos when I hit act 4 ( MS-Faster Attack-Ancestral Call-Phys To Light-Ele damage). When you reach Avatar of fire on tree (around lvl 50/55), you replace phys to light with concentrated effect.
Get HOP/HOA in act2 till act 3, when u can use vitality (i prefer to use vitality for some regen instead of double herald)
I wait to use anger cuz low mana. Use 1 herald (no matter which one) and vitality if you havent enough mana.
If you can get thief soon you can run more support for your MS setup and maybe use immediately anger, mana gain on hit help a lot. Just try it.
For champion if you choose fortitude you must run fortify linked on whirling before you can get Uber Lab.
Get Wildfire jewel for more projectiles in act 5.
You can run till Blood acqueduct on 5 link, then you can farm tabula for 6-link (change into MS-Multistrike-ele focus-ancestral call-conc effect-ele damage). I wait to use multistrike cuz the attack is repeated 2 times, and if u wanna use ur movement skill u must wait the end of the skill animation, so wait until you get more attack speed.
At lvl 46 ornament of the east is awesome. I recommend to grab it.
Use point blank on the tree until you get grelwood (you have to allocate only 3 points)
Get grelwood and thief torment as soon as u can and drop PB.
Before Grelwood run double icimonji.
Watcher eye is the more expensive item, but thief torment/ornament of the east/ichimonji will carry u till yellow/lower red maps...
OFC get rare rings/ammy with life/res and, if u can, get phys/fire damage ...
Rare boots/gloves with life/res...
Until you can get grelwoods, go for point blank on the tree(3 points), then drop it when you can get your first grelwood.
If you cant have a good jewels skipp jew socket for more usefull points during levelling, then grab it when you can get a good one.
I did a levelling tree for the champion but consider that on jugg the tree is the same. On gladiator u must choose if you wanna go DW or with shield, then get the respective wheel accordingly.
Probably on levelling you need some int: "+30 int" node from tree could help you, then you can respect it when you reach the top of the tree (where there are some int points).
-Levelling isnt a exact science, these are only my suggestions, depending on ur current gear and situations.
27-50-76-115 points (select them in left-down window near the search bar)
Gems/Links
Spoiler
"
Since 3.7 ancestral call dont work on bosses swap into fire penetration
"
Movement skill - before you grab fortitude link fortify on whirling
You can use Leap slam instead of whirling.
Fortify linked on your movement skill is MANDATORY. You can drop it only if you run fortitude ascendancy on Champion.
"
Enlighten isn't mandatory but it will help with few extra mana
If You have enligthen lvl 4 you can add Banner also
"
You need VAAL HASTE only, no normal haste
"
Important: put gems exactly in this order for Pantheon trick: CWDT - Blood Rage - Immortal Call
You can add light golem/molten shell/curses (flammability/enfeeble) on ur CWDT setup
The CWDT lvl is based on you. I usualy run lvl 1 on levelling, lvl 5 in white maps, lvl 10 in yellows, lvl 15 in red maps.
"
no link required
Unavailable
For Gladiator only:
If you are using The Surrender you can use reckonig(from shield), curse on hit/ curse(enfeeble or flamability) and culling strike.
You can use tempest shield
for +3% block chance // you can self cast it or link into CWDT setup(cwdt-br-ic-ts).
And you can run shield charge if you prefere it.
If you are running kaom roots and you dont know how to move, this is the way:
mandatory socket are 18/20
The best enchant on this build is molten strike 2 extra projectiles (they become 4 projectiles with ancestral call), but it's fucking expensive
You can use these enchants as well:
Ancestral Protector Totem grants 12% increased Attack Speed while Active
Blood Rage grants additional 12% increased Attack Speed
150% increased Effect of the Buff granted by your Lightning Golems
Molten strike 40% damage
Boots
Regenerate 2% of Life and Mana per second if you were Hit Recently
16% attack/cast speed when you kill
120% increased Critical Strike Chance if you haven't Crit Recently
Videos
IF YOU WANT TO RECORD A VIDEO I WILL ADD IT IN THIS SECTION
[3.4]Full Shaper (super lazy playstyle)
-As you can see the dmg is ok, but not the best
-7.000 hp on gladiator is very cool (never saw it on glad)
-Chance to hit is 83%, for more dps you need accuracy on ring (versatility keystone helps) - 90% will be great
-And ofc 75%/75% block https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6HMDmxRq_o&feature=youtu.be
If you can spend some more currency on this char, search for:
Xoph's Blood - to save 1 point on the tree, it will give us 10% fire pen, and enemy covered in ash take more fire damage Gripped gloves - the best in slot here for more proj damage, with phys/fire damage, res, life, attack speed
or 2 sockets Tombfist - for intimidate and jewels benefits Stygian vise belt - with life, res, elemental damage with attack Opal rings - for more ele damage, with phys/fire damage, life, res, elemental damage with attack Loreweave - it's a very good choice, it will give us more damage, crit chance for elemental overload and more max res Belly Of the beast - give us a big HP boost Mana gain on hit rare jewel - Make us able to run no leech maps
Order Gear Priority
Spoiler
After budget version and you are starting to see for upgreade this is the order to move to get ur gear:
- First: at all at least 1 Grelwood // so you can drop point blank on tree saving 3 point (need only 1 grelwood to drop point blank)
- Second: Watcher eye with GOH vitality mod // so drop thief torment for your rare rings
-Third: or drop your unique belt for a better rare belt or swap into tombfist(better if 2 socket)
-Fourth: loreweave
-Fifth/sixth: Xoph's blood, remember this ammy isnt mandaroty, get this after all other things // dying sun also inst mandatory
[3.3] first uber elder down // NO XOPH'S BLOOD
(isnt a full improved gear, but i wanna show that this build can do uber elder without crazy investment)
Spoiler
My personal final imrpve (from 3.5 the only change is to drop 1 wildfire for 1 rare jew, all the rest of the gear remains the same - look the CHANGELOG at the beginning of this guide)
Dont look the leagues for these characters - ALL POBS ARE UPDATE - put the reference league just for information
---> https://pastebin.com/WAgRDBrT <---
Have minmaxed this build with mana gain on hit jewels and anger life leech watcher eye, so drop life and mana leech on tree for more life (quick recovery) and another jewel socket
Tooltip is referred to melee skill, conc effect works on balls dps, so you can't see your effective dps in game
"
-Grelwood is now more expensive, some suggestion?
All my suggestions are in the guide (into "mechanics" and "levelling" sections). Plz read the entire guide.
"
-Why u use anger and vitality/watcher eye instead of anger/HOA and elder rings with LGOH?
I use vitality cuz i prefer to have more life regen (arakaali pantheon works very well with this setup) and u have more life sustain even when u are not attacking (and this makes ur uber-lab run really ez). Plus, to find elder rings with LGOH and good stats is more difficult.
"
-You said this build is budget, but we need a lot of expensive items (xoph's blood, 6l loreweave, etc...)
Please read the guide carefully. It's divided into sections:
first section describes a budget version, u can hit over 6000 hp and do shaper, t16, red elder, etc...
Second section describes an "improved" version with expensive gear, following it u can farm all high contents like uber atziri and uber elder.
"
-How do you run haste/anger/vitality ?
We only run anger and vitality ... we only use only vaal haste, not the normal haste.
"
-Which bandit choice i must do in jugg or glad variant?
Kill all the bandits in all the variants
"
-What's the best ascendancy variant to easily complete all POE contents?
The cheapest ways are surely champion and jugg. Gladiator needs few more currency cuz you need accuracy on rares. For very easy uber elder on champion and Glad, kaom roots are preferrable, on jugg we are already unstoppable.
"
-What vitality and anger mods do i need to look for on my watchers eye?
First at all "life gain on hit" on vitality as i said in the guide is mandatory.
then you can look for some combination:
Anger: life leech, phys in extra fire, %fire damage
Vitality: life leech, life regen, life recovery
If you get life leech you can drop leech on tree for more usefull points like life or jewel socket.
literally nothing is up to date even though you say it is, none of your pob have skill points so this entire thing is worthless. Plus all your linked passive tree are old outdated ones that are invalid with new trees.
literally nothing is up to date even though you say it is, none of your pob have skill points so this entire thing is worthless. Plus all your linked passive tree are old outdated ones that are invalid with new trees.
Im updating the thread right now.
lemme know if you need some help
updated like most POB
Last edited by Anal_Bleeding on Jan 10, 2023, 5:14:40 AM
