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so, what should we use on syndicate operatives now instead of spell echo?

Multistrike? Faster attacks?

And will they be viable after the nerf for leaguestart, or we are better off playing frost autoscout?

The reason why syndicate operatives were good is because you were able to shotgun enemies using spell echo, now that spell echo is gone you're better off with something else.

// Personally, I'll be going with redemption sentries

I'm here just patiently waiting for Kay to come out and show us some unheard strong new Spectres that will be a new go-to summon. Cause it is the only miracle that can actually safe SSF players.

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skjutengris wrote:

Was a needed re-balance as specters simply was too good.
Now the player may have to learn to play the mechanic.

Agree, maybe you will learn to play the game now :)

the shotgun effect was provided by volley not spell echo lol

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Turbo32 wrote:

It seems to me that your saying we must now always change spectres for bosses or any harder content.
...
Are you suggesting I must change my 6link along with my spectres every time I want to do a map boss.

No, I meant you either play Slave Drivers with Minion Life all the time, or
Crushclaws with 5 damage supports all the time.

Crushclaws won't ever die, and will be better than Skelletons or Zombies.

Frost autoscout should be fine to replace SD.
Hatred instead of wrath and you are good to go

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Turbo32 wrote:

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Lacceh wrote:

Seriously, calm down and stop complaining, it's embarrassing.

Whoa calm your TTs now, that's a very aggressive comment.
(Terrible Temper)

Even without the nerfs, people were loosing their spectres in endgame content.
Even with minion life + empower +ele army and GG aruras, I still lost supporting spectres in a T17 normal zana delirium before.

It seems to me that your saying we must now always change spectres for bosses or any harder content.
Especially now with the new league where it's is all about bossing.
Are you suggesting I must change my 6link along with my spectres every time I want to do a map boss.

Also defensive auras are nerfed and you're expected to do 10 bosses at the same time, your spectre choices are now way smaller than ever.

Also with your comment of must change spectres when you sirus, makes me wonder how far did you reach into the endgame content.
Sirus A8 is not really that hard compared to a lot of other content in the game.

Nerfing their dmg was a good call, but nerfing their HP when they were already dying here and there is really not.

No, of course there's much harder endgame than Sirus, I'm well aware of that. This isn't about me or how far I've got, I'm familiar enough with endgame and spectres to have an opinion on it, whether thru my own or somebody else's experiences. And I play HC so that's going to be different from most ppl playing SC.

Why is it a problem if you have to change from SD to a different spectre for Sirus? I mean look, SD-s are very quick with good aoe AND high dps, BUT they're fragile as a trade-off, they're unique in that way. Why is it an issue that you have to use your brain and adapt, depending on what you want to do in the game? Should every spectre be a carbon copy or what? How boring that would be.

You say that you lost SUPPORT spectres, so you weren't a dedicated damage spectre build. In that case whatever you gain from SUPPORT spectres is merely a bonus.
Look, if players were already investing in minion defenses, and spectre life was reduced, you may have a point, but that's definitely not the case. Regular RS builds all go for damage, any kind of minion defense/life is purely incidental - literally nobody goes out of their way to pick up minion life, just take any non-SD spectre and you're good.
Now, if GGG says: hey, we're not OK with that, we want you to invest a little bit into minion defenses at endgame - why is that an issue? The initial reaction of players is to complain, instead of accepting it.
And to be fair, I don't think you'll have to invest, even after this, if you're not running SD-s. Perhaps with the exception of the toughest endgame, but only a small portion of players have the gear and whatever else it takes to get there (which is perfectly fine IMO), and at that point it is acceptable to require investments, wouldn't you agree?

Again, personally I've been running SD-s for several leagues (I've actually lost count, 4, 5, 6 or more in a row?), and they have been such a strong league-starter with like zero gear, it's totally crazy and the nerf is justified, we have to be honest here. Probably should've nerfed sooner, because ppl got used to it and now it hurts more I suppose.
So if you do the math, you lose roughly 1 support gem link - it will be fine. Frankly the HP won't change anything if you are running a Heist spectre, not SD-s. And if you have support spectres, well, I guess you might have to make some adjustments, but these changes were clearly meant for the regular dedicated spectre dmg builds.

Lastly, one thing I would agree on is that just slashing the gem levels was the wrong and lazy way to go about it - they should have made some changes to specific spectres, buffs here nerfs there, perhaps adjustments to AI, etc. The reason they don't do that is obvious: it takes way more work, and resources have to be spent wisely; RS is only ONE build, one gem, out of hundreds.

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Aeres wrote:

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skjutengris wrote:

Was a needed re-balance as specters simply was too good.
Now the player may have to learn to play the mechanic.

Agree, maybe you will learn to play the game now :)

This is just an ignorant comment. If you didnt know the mechanics before you died, you still had to move around and avoid Shaper beams and Minotaur slams. Dont you dare base your objections and viewpoints on Youtube videos showing off a build with multiple mirror's spent on gear to be able to tank such things.

As for the lot of you saying Harvest is back, fix everything with Harvest? Right, because the majority of the player base will ever create the kind of gear you are talking about. Chris said so himself the vast majority of the player base dont even reach red maps so whats that tell you? Even with these minion builds you were already taking literally all of the minion survivability nodes on the tree and still having them die to stuff.

I agree, certain Spectres were OP and deserved to be nerfed. But to nerf ALL Spectres on top of nerfing SO's was beyond deserved because you effectively ruined a good chunk of already low class Spectres who saw very little play along with support Spectres like the monkies whom will have a tough time staying alive during any significant endgame content. Spectres arent easy to raise mid fight so them having higher life pools is the tradeoff.

Autor, please, can you add spoiler-section for you vision for 3.13 for spectres i think many people need that info