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I read Lyends spectre build, and so I tried out the Scinteel Synthites today. I really went all out with everything I could to boost their DPS, using 20/20 gems like Wrath + Zealotry, etc. I even put on Awakened gems where possible. But my conclusion is that they are terrible. I really don't know why he thinks they are good. They have super poor map clear speed, and their single target DPS is even worse.
I tried a bunch of different support gem combinations, and I think that the problem is that it's very difficult to boost ALL of it's attacks. In otherwords, it has some spells, so that spell echo is good, but it also seems to have 2 attacks where spell echo has no effect. Same thing with any of the projectile supports (LMP, slower projectiles, pierce etc) - they work on his main attack, but not on the other 2 attacks. It did help a lot to use Damage on Full Life, that seems to work for all of it's attacks. But otherwise, 2/3rds of his attacks don't seem to benefit from spell echo or projectile supports. Or maybe I'm missing something? But even in Lyends videos they look bad, so idk why he likes them. |
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hey, Kay, i checked your lvling option that you update recently, and i encountered some problems:
1) Spectres die to Dominus, and sometime to Piety Act3, almost all the time to Piety Act4 and to Malchai, (tested with Fire Eaters and Flame sentinels) 2) Consecrated ground is not enough to sustain minions against some bosses or Delirum stuff (i also had minion life and resists and leech right above templar starting point) so i want some advice on how to solve the problems. Are there any high HP spectres you can get? I also tested a Impale Skellie option that spect later into Spectres, using Infernal Legion SKitterbots for clear, they seem much nicer cuz you can resummon constantly. Ragin spirits feel very bad because, no idea why their damage is so terrible |
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" That list seems to be completely wrong. I know the numbers are from Poe DB, but I was curious because ingame Redemption Sentries have faster boss killing times than Slave Drivers and Esh, like by alot! And its not just Hatred. Turns out, when you add Slave Drivers aswell as Redemption Sentries in PoB with a lvl 20 raise spectre gem with a blank tree-page, Redemption Sentries are far ahead in terms of dps and average hit damage. At gem lvl 24, or Spectre lvl 82, Slave Drivers have an average hit of ~2900 which is about what the DB page states. Redemption Sentries however have ~3755 average Hit at the same lvl on their Default Attack, yet poe db states 1913 base damage. Looking at different spectre pages and numbers I noticed this line: "active_skill_damage_+%_final [1]" is the only thing that Redemptions have, that the other Spectres don't. Cross checking Redemption Sentries at every lvl between pob and pob db this line (?) seems to double their base damage at every lvl!? (off by ~80ish, maybe because of some damage reduction against standard mobs in pob? or damage spread). lvl 78 poe db = 1519 pob = 2954 lvl 82 poe db = 1913 pob = 3755 I also checked Enhanced Vaal Fallen, which are arguable the hardest hitting spectre in the game. Poe DB shows 2047 base damage at lvl 82. Yet pob shows 8037 base average hit at 82. I noticed they have the same line as RS "active_skill_damage_+%_final [1]" , but for EVF its an 4x multiplier!? I guess there is more to spectre damage and scaling behaviour that we don't fully understand just yet. Edit: Seems like alot of Attack based Spectres have this line if they don't have flat damage on their skills. So far it seems that the base damage shown on poedb isn't what you realy get for those Spectres, but just the first step in their damage calculations. I crosshecked most of the meta caster Spectres and all their numbers check out, as they have base flat damage on their spells. If there is anything to take away from this, is we can't evaluate attackbased Spectres just from the db base damage numbers. Last edited by Prevy#1389 on Jun 10, 2020, 10:54:15 AM
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" Try removing your passive points from Retribution, Discipline and Training, and the Quick recovery wheel and spec into Indomitable Army. You should really be getting that wheel before the others listed for minion HP, phys reduction and ele reduction. Edit: Also your gem links are odd - try to follow the gem skill guide more closely. At level 31 you should also be able to run Normal Lab (if you are comfortable with Izaro fights) to get more minion HP and dmg. I feel like you are dealing with a DPS issue and don't have enough to kill bosses before they dish out a lot of damage, which can be solved with things like skitterbots linked to infernal legion (and add skeletons to the link it for extra boss dps). Zombies w/ physical dmg, not minion life, etc. Lastly, you should have crafted a +1 minion skills gem helmet by that level. Last edited by JBear#2284 on Jun 10, 2020, 10:50:53 AM
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" THIS ^^ I agree 100% that Redemption Sentries are much stronger than they look in the poe database. Whatever the numbers are, the real-life results are that they have very high clear and single target DPS. Today I was messing around with some other spectres and I went back to Slave Drivers just to have a base. They are still such an awesome spectre, they do everything with no gem swapping. But, going back to Redemption Sentries, I realized that my clear speed AND single-target bossing was higher than with Slave Drivers. PoB shows my slave drivers at 1.5mil dps each, and redemption sentries at 1.4mil dps each with boss setup and 675k dps each on mapping setup. So I would think that slave drivers would be better on bosses, but they aren't. I had 2 Minotaur maps and I bought 2 more just to test it (so 4 total), and without any map modifiers, the Redemption Sentries killed the minotaur about twice as fast as the Slave Drivers each time. Not to mention their clear speed is also much faster. It's true that Redemption Sentries need to gem swap for the big bosses (Guardians, Conquerors, Sirus, Elder), but it only takes 2 secs to do. So I think that your conclusion is 100% accurate ^^ |
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As a side question:
Does Elemental Damage with Attacks work with Enhanced Vaal Fallen? I don't trust PoB with EVH, it doesn't handle the Elemental Hit attack very well. Like, could I link: Spectre, Elemental Damage with Attacks, Minion Damage, Melee Physical Damage, Multistrike, Concentrated Effect ? For mapping replace Multistrike and Conc Effect with Melee Splash and Minion Speed support. |
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" 1) Will try the pathing you suggest. 2) It was a 5th test with different pathing, gem setup, different gear luck. I did skellies 3 times with a lot better results but I want early spectres cuz I am stubborn. Now I guess I shall mention I am a Spectre main since Abyss league, but most of the time I was lvling as SRS or as Herald of Agony. The only league I didn't do spectres was this one. So I decided to refresh my lvling skills with minions. 3) Zombies got oneshoted by Dominus's minions btw... 4) I had no 4L helmet, so decided to wait for one before craft. 5) Lab I do at lvl33-34, just before going after Kaom and Dareso. You were right about DPS, I lacked DPS in all 5 runs, even if I had +1 helmet. Last edited by muramiri#3426 on Jun 10, 2020, 1:56:40 PM
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" Whoops. I made a mistake with my lazy calculation. I'm so sorry (T_T) I forgot about (active_skill_damage_+%_final). So my number is very far off. Sorry about that. It is 200% at level 84, 1% at level 20. So 194% at level 82. So if you use my number 1275 x 2.94 = 3748. It's close to POB? But you are right about attack spectres. They are really hard to understand! I think there is a base damage value for all monsters. And then there is level scaling. Then base damage modifier. Then skill scaling and other things like conversion. When I started this reply. I did a lot of checking! I use pypoe to check the stats properly this time ^^ And I think there's a major problem in POB numbers! If you look at the calculation for RS default attack. The physical hit has '0.75 (base damage multiplied by base damage multiplier)'. But in the spectre stats the base damage multiplier is 1.5. So why is it 0.75 in POB? EVF stats also has base damage multiplier 1.5. And when you choose default attack, it is the same 0.75. But if you look at Elemmental Hit it is 1.5. So the Ele hit matches the stats, but not default attack (why?) If you check Slave Driver (base damage multiplier = 1) and check default attack, it is also 0.75! So I think 'default attack' calculation in POB is just giving flat 75% multiplier to all spectres. (why?) But the default attack for Redemption Sentry is actually MeleeEyrieArrow. It is a special attack like EVF's ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion. It is not a basic default attack. So, I looked in the POB spectre lua. MeleeEyrieArrow has 'baseMultiplier = 0.75'. And ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion has 'baseMultiplier = 1.5'. (why?) Why do both spectres have damage 1.5 in the stats, but POB has 0.75 for RS ability and 1.5 for EVF ability. Seem strange. So I looked at Contents.ggpk. ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion: ![]() stat1value is 200, stat1 key is 634. There is no 1.5 or 150 in the full stat line. MeleeEyrieArrow: ![]() stat2value is 200. stat2 key is 634. stat1value is 75. stat1 key is 1110. There is only one 0.75 in the full stat line. 634 is active_skill_damage_+%_final 1110 is skill_physical_damage_%_to_convert_to_cold So it looks like 'baseMultiplier' was added manually and not taken from the stat line. But I'm not sure why 'baseMultiplier = 0.75' is added to MeleeEyrieArrow because the only 0.75 (or 75) is for cold conversion and ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion has no 1.5 or 150, but it has 'baseMultiplier = 1.5'. Did the updater make a mistake because they saw 75 in the same 'stat1' position? So... maybe the base damage for RS should be the same as EVF actually. It should also have 'baseMultiplier = 1.5'. That would mean the actual RS hit (and also RK!) is the same as the Cold Hit for EVF! I think that's why RS kills boss quicker than other spectre but the POB DPS is not as good. " " * Maybe the correct info for POB lua:
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stats = { "skill_physical_damage_%_to_convert_to_cold", "active_skill_damage_+%_final", "arrow_projectile_variation", }, levels = { [1] = { 75, 0, 26, baseMultiplier = 1.5, levelRequirement = 1, statInterpolation = { 1, 2, 1, }, }, [2] = { 75, 0, 26, baseMultiplier = 1.5, levelRequirement = 19, statInterpolation = { 1, 2, 1, }, }, [3] = { 75, 1, 26, baseMultiplier = 1.5, levelRequirement = 20, statInterpolation = { 1, 2, 1, }, }, [4] = { 75, 200, 26, baseMultiplier = 1.5, levelRequirement = 84, statInterpolation = { 1, 2, 1, }, }, }, Maybe I misunderstand, though. If anyone knows more about it, please share! 🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰 🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶 Last edited by kayella#0845 on Jun 10, 2020, 3:31:46 PM
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" Ele Damage should work because ElementalHitSkeletonKnightIncursion has 'attack' tag. I tried splash and speed. It felt a lot better! Still not super fast though. But after doing research to reply for Prevy, I think RK is actually more powerful than EVF because POB stats might be wrong. 🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶 |
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" Yep, was checking the Lua files aswell. Could not make sense of it yet. I am not sure if they are at the same lvl as EVF. EVF are just not consistant with Ele Hit. If you check my first videos/pobs you can tell that the numbers in pob seem to be somewhat right when you compare kill times, dps and guardian HP values. However... check out RS base damage jump from lvl 19 skill gem to lvl 20 in pob ... like holy damn. Jumps up from 800 to 2600. Something is super fishy here... Thats the 200% I supose... but damn what a jump. EFV scale smoothly at all levels. Edit: So I can replicate the numbers in pob. However the question still remains why RS have a 0.75 base multiplier on Eyriearrow. With the 0.75 they get the ~4k base hit in pob at 82 And EVF get their 8k base hit with their 1.5 multiplier so thats all fine. If RS had a 1.5 multiplier on Eyriearrow they would indeed have a higher average hit than EFV at ~8.4k. Thats actually insane :D Last edited by Prevy#1389 on Jun 10, 2020, 3:58:17 PM
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