[3.15]Fire&Flamethrower Traps Saboteur/Strongest Combo in the Game/League starter+Boss farmer

Any thoughts on using the buffed Kongming's strategem for the Scion versio n to get more consistent blind layer of defense + dps?

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soulsofblack93 wrote:

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Haupas wrote:

Hey, this looks like a cool build and I'm thinking of trying it out next league! Would you recommend shadow or scion for Harvest? If it's not too much to ask, could you explain your thoughts on which character is better?

I'm gonna talk about every version of the build so it should give you a clue on what to play.Both shadow and scion can do every content in the game but they both have different needs and investments.

Playing Shadow as Life&MoM sacrifices so much damage so i never used MoM on shadow.Life based shadow is better to be played as a budget league starter and to complete/set up your atlas/kill guardians and shaper easily.But he is squishy and struggles on hard map mods and Sirus.

On the other hand, Energy shield Shadow is very strong and way tankier but requires a good investment to achieve that.He also has the highest fire trap dps(Almost a million dps for each trap) while maintaining 7.5k+ ES.

To conclude shadow,if you can farm good currency and know what to do in PoE,i recommend playing him and work your way through this progress and eventually transition from Life to Energy shield.

If you want to play Life&Mind over matter go for scion.She has ridiculous healing thanks to Agnostic(which is added to talent tree now so it is easier to access at league start).Scions only downside is you need to gear her to not die easily.You want good mana on your items and level up your character to complete the talent tree.Also Scion gets stunned a lot so you need that flask mod from Mastermind.(Check build guide for details)But eventually when you gear her,she is very powerful and will carry you through every content in the game easily.She is also the easiest character to kill Sirus.

Hope these help.Let me know if you have any thoughts or questions and good luck in Harvest :)

Hello!
Such a great guide and detailed review in quoted post, but I cant still decide who to choose as a league starter for Harvest. It seems Shadow is better for starting and his final form (ES) is better than Scions. In Shadow gear section there's a lot of alternative budget gear pieces, but in Scion sections only a couple items seems replaceable.
I want so much to try something new (never played Scion), but it seems she's not good at the start and not good at the end when compared to Shadow, is that so?

P.S. How is Sirus easier with Scion? And my main question is can one really start a league with Scion?

BTW there's a great notes on leveling a Shadow in POB and crafting advices in guide section, can I use them on Scion or is it complete different story?

Great explanation @oulsofblack93. Much appreciated.

Out of curiosity, did you check out Angry's build? Is there a core difference? Was thinking of making a "mix".

Would apreciate some thoughts.

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emeraldpastures wrote:

Any thoughts on using the buffed Kongming's strategem for the Scion versio n to get more consistent blind layer of defense + dps?

Looks good and can be useful until you get that good mana gear to heal more than what you take :) Leaving the patch note here for other people who might read.

Kongming's Stratagem: Now grants 30-50% increased Fire Damage with Hits and Ailments against Blinded Enemies (from 30%), and has 250-300% increased Energy Shield (from 80-120%). Existing items can be updated to these new values with a Divine Orb. The Fog of War skill that is triggered when a trap is triggered has also been improved, with a larger radius and a cooldown of 1 second (from 3).

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Cry0nicS wrote:

Great explanation @oulsofblack93. Much appreciated.

Out of curiosity, did you check out Angry's build? Is there a core difference? Was thinking of making a "mix".

Would apreciate some thoughts.

I didn't check it and i won't because this build is something i made when it first became playable 2 years ago and kept updating it.This is my version and i'm fine with it and i don't want to get influenced from other people's builds and want to figure it out myself if i see any necessary changes.If you have any questions or advice for the build just ask here or whisper me in game when league starts and i will share my opinion.That's what everyone's doing so far :) I'm open to any suggestions.Good luck!

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RockyScream wrote:

BTW there's a great notes on leveling a Shadow in POB and crafting advices in guide section, can I use them on Scion or is it complete different story?

If you are talking about "gems and which acts to get them" then you can use them.Scion is something that i made only 2 leagues ago so there are still some places i need to fill in.

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RockyScream wrote:

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soulsofblack93 wrote:

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Haupas wrote:

Hey, this looks like a cool build and I'm thinking of trying it out next league! Would you recommend shadow or scion for Harvest? If it's not too much to ask, could you explain your thoughts on which character is better?

I'm gonna talk about every version of the build so it should give you a clue on what to play.Both shadow and scion can do every content in the game but they both have different needs and investments.

Playing Shadow as Life&MoM sacrifices so much damage so i never used MoM on shadow.Life based shadow is better to be played as a budget league starter and to complete/set up your atlas/kill guardians and shaper easily.But he is squishy and struggles on hard map mods and Sirus.

On the other hand, Energy shield Shadow is very strong and way tankier but requires a good investment to achieve that.He also has the highest fire trap dps(Almost a million dps for each trap) while maintaining 7.5k+ ES.

To conclude shadow,if you can farm good currency and know what to do in PoE,i recommend playing him and work your way through this progress and eventually transition from Life to Energy shield.

If you want to play Life&Mind over matter go for scion.She has ridiculous healing thanks to Agnostic(which is added to talent tree now so it is easier to access at league start).Scions only downside is you need to gear her to not die easily.You want good mana on your items and level up your character to complete the talent tree.Also Scion gets stunned a lot so you need that flask mod from Mastermind.(Check build guide for details)But eventually when you gear her,she is very powerful and will carry you through every content in the game easily.She is also the easiest character to kill Sirus.

Hope these help.Let me know if you have any thoughts or questions and good luck in Harvest :)

Hello!
Such a great guide and detailed review in quoted post, but I cant still decide who to choose as a league starter for Harvest. It seems Shadow is better for starting and his final form (ES) is better than Scions. In Shadow gear section there's a lot of alternative budget gear pieces, but in Scion sections only a couple items seems replaceable.
I want so much to try something new (never played Scion), but it seems she's not good at the start and not good at the end when compared to Shadow, is that so?

P.S. How is Sirus easier with Scion? And my main question is can one really start a league with Scion?

First of all you can start as Scion in a new league.I did that in metamorph 3.9 and that was the first time i made the scion as trapper to test it and it worked wonderful.The reason Scion is easier in Sirus or maybe another hard boss fight is she gets healed automatically so you can make some mistakes unless you got 1-shotted from an obvious attack.She has massive automatic healing from Agnostic(which is added to talent tree now and easier to access at league start) If you are comparing Scion with ES+LL Shadow and than yes, shadow has more dps.But that dps is overkill and you don't need that in mapping.Bossing can make some difference but once you gear your character(scion/shadow doesn't matter) you will do ALL content in the game so in the end the only thing that matters is if you are enjoying the character you are playing or not.If you want to play as a scion just go for it.

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soulsofblack93 wrote:

If you have any questions or advice for the build just ask here or whisper me in game when league starts and i will share my opinion.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have just one question left.

There's a lot of zum-zum over the internet that currently, only Spellslinger nad other meta builds are viable starts. For everything else (say your starter trap build) getting into maps and start pushing into yellow and maybe red will require a huge investment compared to the meta builds.

Now, I haven't been around for too long. Delirium was my first league start. And while it went great with a meta build, my question is simple:

Would you recommend someone that hasn't played 1000+ hours, but wants to do well in the league start to play your mine trap build? Or would he (aka me) have a hard time and instead of playing will spend more time on trades trying to get 6L weapon / chest?
Can I progress with cheaper 5Links?

I know the answer is usually "depends". However, I'd like to get your opinion. Truth is, I would like to start with this miner, I'm just afraid I'll need weeks before I can properly map.

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Cry0nicS wrote:

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soulsofblack93 wrote:

If you have any questions or advice for the build just ask here or whisper me in game when league starts and i will share my opinion.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have just one question left.

There's a lot of zum-zum over the internet that currently, only Spellslinger nad other meta builds are viable starts. For everything else (say your starter trap build) getting into maps and start pushing into yellow and maybe red will require a huge investment compared to the meta builds.

Now, I haven't been around for too long. Delirium was my first league start. And while it went great with a meta build, my question is simple:

Would you recommend someone that hasn't played 1000+ hours, but wants to do well in the league start to play your mine trap build? Or would he (aka me) have a hard time and instead of playing will spend more time on trades trying to get 6L weapon / chest?
Can I progress with cheaper 5Links?

I know the answer is usually "depends". However, I'd like to get your opinion. Truth is, I would like to start with this miner, I'm just afraid I'll need weeks before I can properly map.

Traps and some mine skills(not you arc and ball lightning :D ) are slower compared to those zum-zum builds.Trappers are always a viable league starter because most of them(including my build) are spell skills so it scales with gem level so it requires less investment comparing to attack builds(melee/bow etc) A trapper can clear maps easily with only a tabula rasa or a cheap rare 6link and some low budget items(talking less than 1-2 ex) at league start.And once you spend a little more you are ready to farm red maps(still talking about low budget,max 5ex) By farming red maps i mean sextanted t15-16.This is what i do when i play trapper(i play my build every 2 leagues and i'm gonna play scion this league) But the thing is i know what i'm doing,i played my build before, i know how to farm red maps etc. So yes it depends on the player's experience.
Let me correct you at some points.You said trappers/miner requires more investment comparing to meta builds.That's wrong most of the time because these kind of builds are always popular cause they can be viable as cheap league starters so you don't need much investment to do red maps.That's why you will see Saboteurs on the leaderboard at league start and then they will disappear after 2 weeks.Most people including me playing trap/mines to do a solid league start,farm currency and transition into expensive/more powerful characters.Another thing about "meta",they are always expensive at league start because most people play those builds(cause they saw a youtube video or something).On the other hand traps/miners are being played every league so there isn't really a new meta going on that's why most items are very cheap.(21lvl/23quality fire trap is 15c most of time) Playing a non-meta build always is better at league start.
To sum things up, you can definitely play a trapper or miner as league start because that's one of the reasons to play those builds.They are very powerful with low investment and can kill bosses with a tabula and 19lvl gems.And once you invest some more,your dps will increase a lot and also it will fix your survivalability.The only downside in my opinion is, most trap skills clear speed is 5/10 so don't expect full screen clear.Think of playing these kind of builds to set you up and farm enough currency to play the expensive build you want to try later on.
Hope these clarify things for you.Don't be shy and ask any future questions you have :) Good luck in Harvest!