From what I saw this PoB is very situational and only topping out at 1 million dps. While that is enough for most stuff; the build itselfs feels very meh to me. Speaking strictly for Legion league this build definitely isn't budget.
Also blood and sand has a max reachable level (Through exp) of 6 in-game. (-115k dps)
Let take vulnerability out of the equation because impresence is now what; 4ex?
(-200k)
Daresso's is 1ex+ (Let alone linking it) (-130k give or take depending on onslaught)
I'll not take into account beserk; But my best estimate put this build around an average of 500k dps if everything is going well (Vaal haste;vaal grace)
But I do agree top-end is over 1 million if everything is set off at the right time. But it's very limited in time.
Anyway this build is no longer budget. I feel like a 2h cyclone will end up with more deeps for less chaos at the moment. Playing around with bladestorm which does feel good. Would strongly recommend getting impale and dropping bleeding.
Base impale damage is higher in my PoB than bleeding damage per tick.
Bleed is 38k while base impale is ~10k per hit. Even if you stack it 8 times, needing 8 attacks; 304k dps. Impale is alot harder to calc, but even if you dumb it down to 5*120k = 600k dps over 5 hits. We spent 10 points on tree on bleed, the equiv in impale would cost around 6 points for 50% chance, eg we would need 10 attacks to do double of the damage of bleed. But the actual impale deeps is higher still.
Let me know if something is wrong with the calc.
Last edited by sklipnoty#7673 on Jun 9, 2019, 9:03:05 PM
Bleed is 38k while base impale is 120k. Even if you stack it 8 times, needing 8 attacks; 304k dps. Impale is alot harder to calc, but even if you dumb it down to 5*120k = 600k dps over 5 hits. We spent 10 points on tree on bleed, the equiv in impale would cost around 6 points for 50% chance, eg we would need 10 attacks to do double of the damage of bleed. But the actual impale deeps is higher still.
Let me know if something is wrong with the calc.
PoB does not count DPS from the new multistrike at all, DPS is based on the first hit in the calculation, not to mention Bleed DPS (multistrike 2nd and 3nd hit increased Bleed DPS - PoB don't calculate it, When you mark and unmark the Multistrike Bleed DPS stands still! Because PoB does not know that you can stack bleed).
Yes, PoB can not count DPS from Bleed, I will paste here what I wrote earlier.
"
Lacerate also slashes twice, which is very nice for Bleed. Each slash inflicts Bleed and is not split into two small as hit. Bleed from the ninth hit (Ruthless + 99% multistrike buff) we get two Bleed stacks. Anyway, similarly from the eighth, thanks to the huge amount of Attack Speed, we should keep on the target only strong Bleed stacks from hits 7-9 (If new Bleed make smaller dmg will not overwrite).
So to 38k you need to add Multistrike and Ruthless combined together.
Ruthless Blows with Supported Skills deal (75-132)% more Damage with Bleeding caused by Melee Hits
Supported Skills Repeat 2 additional times
First Repeat of Supported Skills deals (40-50)% more Damage
Second Repeat of Supported Skills deals (80-99)% more Damage
Supported Skills deal 30% less Attack
Ruthless when supported by Multistrike Support, Ruthless blows work differently, instead of occurring every third hit, it occurs every third multistrike. This means hits from the first 2 uses (attacks 1 - 6) will be "normal blows" and all hits from the 3rd multi-strike use (attacks 7-9) will be ruthless blows.
1 attack = 2x bleed 38k (Base Bleed)
2 attack = 2x bleed 38k + 50% from multistrike (I do not know what Bleed dmg will be and how to calculate it)
3 attack = 2x bleed 38k + 99% from multistrike
4-6 we repeat the same cycle
7 attack = 2x bleed 38k + (75-132)% more Damage with Bleeding caused by Melee Hits from Ruthless (I also do not know how to calculate it: D )
8 attack = 2x bleed 38k + 50% Multistrike and 132% Ruthless combined
9 attack = 2x bleed 38k + 99% Multistrike and 132% Ruthless combined
So for this we have for the simple counting 10 attack rate. So we'll throw twenty Bleed in one second. Four of them will be attacks 8 and 9, the next four will come next second. So we have 8 stacks that only consist of attacks 8 and 9, The weaker Bleed does not overwrite, so only these bleeds eat our target. If it was as easy as counting 8x 38k then probably I would not play it myself :)
Unfortunately, comunity now appreciates only numbers and copying builds from streamers. This build is based on high bleed damage and that's how it is, but most people will say MEH, open PoB and see hit damage. Because now you have to do what the top twitch does.
Budget, this is not a description of how much it costs to build on the endgame, but what is the entry threshold. You can easily play without Impresence and other goodies. and it is worth adding that the build was created a long time ago and no one was interested in it: D
Last edited by loczek123#6858 on Jun 9, 2019, 10:11:47 PM
If you are not using WB for tactical mobility, try using Bladestorm in a 4 link. MPD-Fort-FA. Quick to cast and has a lasting area giving attack speed in Blood mode.
Using Bloodstrom in Wyrmsign gloves. so lvl 5 CE. Sure there are better options but it dropped. Takes a bit to get the Rampage off, thinking I just am not killing with offhand.
Enjoying the build, still a bit of a glass cannon, but if you look at my belt...it is all good.
---Hi. Is Flesh and Stone + Maimed Support a better choice for this build? It lets maimed enemies take 30% increased physical damage for 28% reserved mana
Blood in the Eyes Ascendancy makes Flesh and Stone a bit redundant.
--- Greetings! Where do you get neede INT (for BLASPHEMY) ? I am hardly missing that stat. Help me!
Take the +30 Int node, until you get Int on Equipment. You really do not need it higher than level 1.
Hello it's my first guide at all. At the start I would like to apologize for the poor english grammar.
3.7 CHANGES ! READ!
Spoiler
They released a patch note. It looks fantastic.
- There will be a change in Ascendancy.
Blood in the Eyes -> Gratuitous Violence -> Challenger Arena -> Outmatch and Outlast
- Passive Tree below link to PoB but only with passives, there is a tree with 36/55/75/95 and 115 points inside
https://pastebin.com/SRnzca69
- Skills, it looks like build will be based on the old good Double Strike and on Lacerate after rework.
"
Double Strike
Now deals base damage equal to, and has an added damage effectiveness of, 91% at gem level 1 (from 70%), up to 112% at gem level 20 (from 94%).
Now has a 25% chance to cause bleeding.
Now has an attack speed multiplier of 80%.
"
Lacerate
As previously, slashes the air twice, dealing damage in two overlapping areas of effect, with the possibility that enemies in the overlapping area will be hit by both.
Now has different behaviour depending on whether you are in Sand Stance of Blood Stance. You are in Blood Stance by default.
While in Blood Stance, now has a 25% chance to cause bleeding, and causes you to deal 50% more damage with bleeding at gem level 1, up to 88% more at gem level 20.
While in Sand Stance, now increases the width of the slash areas of effect by 50%.
Now deals base damage equal to, and has an added damage effectiveness of, 100% at gem level 1 (from 60%), up to 123% at gem level 20 (from 74%).
Now adds 5 to 8 physical damage to attacks at gem level 1, up to 75 to 113 at gem level 20.
Now has an attack speed multiplier of 60%.
I will also test two new gems: Bladestorm, Perforate, But it looks less promising than Double and Lacerate.
- Support Gem, it will probably be worth using Fortify Support in the main setup, probably in place of Maim / Brutality.
"
Supported skills now have 15% increased Fortify duration at gem level 1, up to 34% at gem level 20 (from 25% at all gem levels).
Supported skills now deal 20% more melee physical damage at gem level 1 (from 25% increased melee physical damage) up to 34% more at gem level 20 (from 44% increased).
Supported skills now deal 20% more damage with bleeding and poison caused by melee hits at gem level 1, up to 34% more at gem level 20.
I'm now looking at the gem information and I find Rage Support and Berserk seem to be interesting for this build, I'm not entirely sure whether "Supported skills deal added physical damage" or this flat damage will also be counted for bleed or only for skill damage. Need to check it.(Rage look op O_o' if it work for bleed it will be in 4 link already!) :)
- Auras, obviously Grace (50%), then we need to use Blood and Sand (10%) or Flesh and Stone (25%). I do not know how much Flesh and Stone will be useful, if it is weak then we will use Blood and Sand only to generate charge. as a supplement, we will probably use the Herald of Purity. Unless one of the new auras will have a low mana cost and it will work well. I'm talking about Pride. Although I bet that it will have a cost of 50% of mana.
- Gear Without major changes, the changes will probably appear during the league, we do not know all of the new legends, the only thing that comes to my mind is using the Perseverance belt, if we decide to use Fortify Support, it will give us Onslaught permanently.
The changes are really big so it's hard to state clearly what will work best even with the knowledge of the patch note, so I will be currently edited during the league, there is a lot to test, I'm also open to any suggestions.
One thing is for sure, build will gain a lot from the buffs that come out in this patch 3.7
I was inspired by another Bleed Build which I played. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1951094 give me a lot of fun (this is my favorite build) unfortunately the author stopped supporting his guide quite a long time ago, so I decided to make my build with the foundations and guiding idea taken from Bladewing_M. Build relies on stacking as much as possible of Evasion which becomes the basic defense and thanks to the use of Dreamfeather Sword significantly increases our hit damage, everything is supported to make the perfect balance between Hit and Bleed Damage. Our basic skill is Double Strike, which thanks to a huge amount of flat dmg on Bleed targets does an amazing job both as Bleed and Hit.To increase the speed of regular content, we mention Double Strike on Lacerate which boasts a much larger AoE (In fact, every melee skill should work here).
PROS AND CONS
PROS:
- Can do all content
- Budget
- Good survivability (Alot of Evasion/nice armor/a lot of damage reduction)
- Solid clearspeed (Reave looks like top tier, Double Strike a bit slower)
- Using crazy mechanics
- Great Lab Farmer
- Bleed it's main dps source but we still hit hard :)
CONS
- Hard to Check real DPS (even PoB don't calculate Crimson Dance and Bleed properly)
- It's Still evasion build, you can get occasional one hit on crazy map mode.
- Maddening Presence visual effect (great buff but i hate that circle).
PoB Link
3.7 PoB update, below the link to the ready build (mid game items, no Perfect Form). Gems / Items/ Pasives Tree
https://pastebin.com/tR7L06t9
It seems that the multistrike does not work properly, it increases Attack Speed and lowers DMG, so it takes only the first shot into calculation, the next two with the increased DMG are not count...
And the old problem, Bleed calculations. DMG with Bleed need to multiply x8 because it's a single Bleed (After so many years, we can not enter the number of Bleed stacks on the target), of course it's pure Bleed without Multistrike + Ruthess combo.
GEAR
Spoiler
Bleed it's not calculated from hit DPS just from your base Physical DMG (weapon dmg*skill base dmg + flat dmg from gear) So on Rare items we looks for Flat Physical DMG! I will link my actual gear (it's crap but work fine i kill Sheaper firt time ever! :O
So Stats priority it's:
Resist Cap/HP/Flat Physical Damage/Evasion
WEAPON
It's your core items, we stack Eva and get 2% Attack Damage every 450 evasion, Attack Speed, flat Evasion, Movement Speed.
Cost: 1 alch - 5-10 chaos (for a good corrupt one)
CHEST
High Evasion and Armour, Leech, Dodge chance, HP, Onslaught (up time it's really good), cost 1 chaos for good stats one, or 25 chaos for already 5 link one.
There it's one better Body Armour [The Perfect Form] but it's full Evasion so it's really hard to get 5 Red socket and when we get one we need to change gear and stack alot of cold ress. So its an endgame option for us.
AMULET
It's Best option for us, we get Flat Physical DMG, Life, Maddening Presence (10% slow and reduce dmg from enemy), Free Vulnerability
Cost: 5-30 chaos
BELT
I use this one, but you can use Rare if you have a good one and need some Resist etc. Good option it's have corruption [Grace has XX% increased aura effect] it's really cheap not much build use Grace aura!
RINGS
Two Really cheap Ring i will check for update, flat Evasion/% Evasion will be nice option for Rings.
GLOVES/HELMET/BOOTS
High Evasion, life, resist, Flat dmg on gloves. Simply Crap.
FLASK
Rumi it's best def flask we can get! Can give us 30% spell block (Versatile Combatant node), Armour, Hit Block
Witchfire Brew and Jade Flas are our DPS/Def boost, so it's great!
Jewel
You look for:
-% Life
-% Increased Damage
-% Increased Damage with Bleeding
-% Increased Damage Over Time
Abyss option:
- flat life
- flat Physical Damage
Watcher's Eye for Grace it's Really cheap and can give you %Life and some defence node (more Evasion or Blind).
However, at the early stage of the league and the development of the character itself, when we do not have Ascendancy and other important keystone may be useful games such as Chance to Bleed / Maim / Faster Attack (instead of Multistrike/Ruthless which needs a lot of attack speed to run smoothly) will work very well and help us go to maps.
And Fortify, the difference between using Fortify or Melee Physical Damage is not significant. So you can easily use these games alternately, Fortify in the main setup is an interesting option. But that does not change my mind about the Ramparts wheel. I think it is overrated, it will give us 4% more reduction from Fortify and attack speed but you must have 6 passives, better go in Soul of Steal if you think about def (3 point need) and Berserking (3 point need) if you think about Attack speed.
We also do not know how Rage will behave in practice (keeping stacks, stacking him on the boss), but this gem looks amazing on paper. If it comes out differently in practice, it will be replaced for Fortify / Chance to Bleed or Maim
Deeper explanation for 3.7
Spoiler
CALCULATING BASE BLEEDING DAMAGE:
Spoiler
• Base physical damage from weapon scaled by local increased physical damage, and,
• Added flat physical damage from other sources e.g. Iron Rings, Abyssus
• Scale base damage by modifier of the attack & added damage is modified by the Effectiveness of Added Damage Example of base damage modifier: Spectral Throw “Deals (54-90.5)% of Base Attack Damage” Example of Effectiveness of Added Damage: Firestorm “Effectiveness of Added Damage: 30%”
• Multiply the above by the Base Bleeding Damage Value (210% of Base Physical Damage per second while the target is moving, or, 70% of Base Physical Damage while the target is stationary for 5 seconds.)
SCALING BASE BLEEDING DAMAGE (% More/Increased):
• Damage (Like on Jewels)
• Physical Damage (e.g. Rustic Sash, Shadow Start Nodes, Brutality Support Gem)
• Bleeding damage
• Damage Over Time
• Trap, Mine, Totem & Minion Damage (As long as the Ailment is applied by the respective source e.g. Minion applying a Poison scales with Minion Damage. Note that damage types don’t carry across, a trapped Minion won't scale with Trap Damage)
• If you apply an Ailment with a Critical Strike, it is modified by your “Damage Multiplier for Ailments from Critical Strikes" (base value 150%)
• If you have Perfect Agony, 30% of the value of your additional Critical Strike Multiplier modifiers (that are applicable to the hit) will also add to your "Damage Multiplier for Ailments from Critical Strikes"
• Anything that specifically mentions ailment/bleeding damage
EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT DON’T SCALE AILMENT DAMAGE
Spoiler
• Increased Damage with [Weapon Type]
• “Attack Damage” (Or variants of “Increased Physical Attack Damage”)
• Increased melee damage
• Projectile damage
• Area Damage
• Spell Damage
• Additional Critical Strike Multiplier if you DON’T have Perfect Agony Keystone (as it does not get converted to Damage Multiplier for Ailments from Critical Strikes)
• Assassin's Mark extra damage on critical strike cannot apply to Ailment damage, even with Perfect Agony.
• Doubled damage on hit mechanics (e.g. Weight of the Empire’s “Heavy Strike has a 20% chance to deal Double Damage”)
• Point Blank (And Chin Sol’s similar effect)
• Elemental Penetration
• Inquisitor’s “Ignore Enemy Elemental Resistances”
• Armor does not mitigate bleed
Now let's see what in our case will be the best solution, the most important is Bleed while keeping the biggest hit damage too.
- Melee Physical Damage Support Supported Skills deal (30-49)% more Melee Physical Damage –> hit only (+Quality)
Supported Skills deal (30-49)% more Damage with Bleeding and Poison caused by Melee Hits –> Bleed only
- Brutality Support Supported Skills deal (40-59)% more Physical Damage -> Bleed and Hit (+Quality)
-Chance to Bleed Support Supported Attacks deal (1-44) to (2-66) added Physical Damage with Weapons -> Bleed and Hit
Supported Attacks deal (10-29)% more Damage with Bleeding -> Bleed only (+Quality)
-Ruthless Support* 0.5% increased Attack Damage -> Hit only (+Quality)
Ruthless Blows with Supported Skills deal (75-132)% more Melee Damage -> Hit only
Ruthless Blows with Supported Skills deal (75-132)% more Damage with Bleeding caused by Melee Hits -> Bleed only
* But this applies to every third attack, or attacks 7-9 if we use Multistrike.
-Fortify Support Supported skills now deal (20-34)% more melee physical damage -> Hit only
Supported skills now deal (20-34)% more damage with bleeding and poison caused by melee hits -> Bleed only
0.5% increased Attack Damage per 1% quality -> Hit only
-Rage Support * 0.5% increased Attack Damage -> Hit only (+Quality)
Supported Attacks deal (4) to (7) added Physical Damage with Weapons per 10 Rage-> Bleed and Hit
Supported Attacks deal (39) to (72) added Physical Damage with Weapons while you have at least 10 rage-> Bleed and Hit
*And bonus from self Rage buff! And we can use
-Multistrike Supported Skills have (44)% more Melee Attack Speed
Supported Skills deal 30% less Attack Damage – Hit Only
Supported Skills deal (10)% increased Melee Physical Damage –> hit only (Quality)
First repeat of supported skill deals 50% more damage -> Bleed and Hit
Second repeat of supported skill deals 99% more damage -> Bleed and Hit
Let's now note how Ruthless + Multistrike Works
"
When supported by Multistrike Support, Ruthless blows work differently, instead of occurring every third hit, it occurs every third multistrike. This means hits from the first 2 uses (attacks 1 - 6) will be "normal blows" and all hits from the 3rd multi-strike use (attacks 7-9) will be ruthless blows.
Look on bleed stacking:
"
Each bleed effect remains present on the target until it runs its course, but only the one with the highest damage per second will cause damage at any given moment.
it means that every 8 and 9 hit will be a real monster both as a bleed stack and a hit if we combine the two gems together.
Auras/Buffs (4 link*):
1. Grace 50% (when you set up a dreamfather, you do not need it before
2. Blood and Sand 10% - (necessary to change stance)
3. Herald of Purity 25%
4. Vulnerability Curse Aura – Free (when we have Impresence Amulet)
*Blasphemy Support + Vulnerability - Blood and Sand - Herald of Purity as 4 link. Grace will be placed in utility with Increased Duration to extend the time of Vaal Grace.
Blood Rage for Attack Speed and extra Leech.
Phase Run, additional dmg, speed and pass through enemy, We easily generate frenzy charge, thanks to that the buff lasts long when we use it at full charges.
Vaal Grace for additional defense
Utility 2 (3 link) :
Berserk - Ancestral Protector
I will still work on this guide, make some lvling guide etc. But need more time! For now ENJOY!
A) You are in blood stance - 88% more bleeding damage using Lacerate
B) You have 8 stacks of bleeding
C) You are allowed to do 10 attacks (for the sake of argument)
D) You are able to do 5 attacks per second (seems reasonable)
After 4 attacks we manage to do 516k over 5 seconds. (Which is meh since we do 12 attacks per second)
Now it become's tricky we have reached our 8 stacks and they all happened in the same second aswell; Now these deal damage over 5 seconds. Once a bleed applies the highest damage get chosen and runs it course. The wiki is very vague about this but I am assuming a bleed cannot be split up between multiple bleeds. I think you can toy around with physical more applier in PoB to get to exact numbers. Obviously you can twist this and say higher bleeds should take precedence over lower bleeds however I think GGG needs to clear this up; Wheter or not a bleed can be interrupted once starting. Espcially in a high attack speed setting. I'll average it out and say 103k per second damage atleast after 4 hits of bleeding.
Impale will do use 10% of physical damage per tick per impale for 5 hits.
Which should end us at ~120k after 10 hits. But this damage is applied directly.
Hence speccing out of some added bleed nodes on the tree and speccing into impale seems like a good idea. Keep a weaker bleed and add an extra form of damage.
I legit believe bleed does alot, I also believe you have an opportunity to add another layers of damage. Guessing we should calc the difference.
Also based on my mapping runs I would advise this approach.
EDIT; RIP forgot to take into calc the ruthless and multistrike modifiers for Impale ... So damage is even higher ...
Last edited by sklipnoty#7673 on Jun 9, 2019, 9:20:13 PM
A) You are in blood stance - 88% more bleeding damage using Lacerate
B) You have 8 stacks of bleeding
C) You are allowed to do 10 attacks (for the sake of argument)
D) You are able to do 5 attacks per second (seems reasonable)
After 4 attacks we manage to do 516k over 5 seconds. (Which is meh since we do 12 attacks per second)
Now it become's tricky we have reached our 8 stacks and they all happened in the same second aswell; Now these deal damage over 5 seconds. Once a bleed applies the highest damage get chosen and runs it course. The wiki is very vague about this but I am assuming a bleed cannot be split up between multiple bleeds. I think you can toy around with physical more applier in PoB to get to exact numbers. Obviously you can twist this and say higher bleeds should take precedence over lower bleeds however I think GGG needs to clear this up; Wheter or not a bleed can be interrupted once starting. Espcially in a high attack speed setting. I'll average it out and say 103k per second damage atleast after 4 hits of bleeding.
Impale will do use 10% of physical damage per tick per impale for 5 hits.
Which should end us at ~120k after 10 hits. But this damage is applied directly.
Hence speccing out of some added bleed nodes on the tree and speccing into impale seems like a good idea. Keep a weaker bleed and add an extra form of damage.
I legit believe bleed does alot, I also believe you have an opportunity to add another layers of damage. Guessing we should calc the difference.
Also based on my mapping runs I would advise this approach.
EDIT; RIP forgot to take into calc the ruthless and multistrike modifiers for Impale ... So damage is even higher ...
Bladestorm definitely feels like a neat skill. Do you have any idea on how this tree might look? Does Guardian still make sense, or would one go with Champion or Slayer?
Hence speccing out of some added bleed nodes on the tree and speccing into impale seems like a good idea. Keep a weaker bleed and add an extra form of damage.
I legit believe bleed does alot, I also believe you have an opportunity to add another layers of damage. Guessing we should calc the difference.
Hmmm it's very interesting what you write. Does Impalas really do this job now? I do not know how to relate to this mechanics. This is 10% of our hit? Just?
Because if it's like you say, we can change a tree a bit, throw Multistrike, replace Maim (it seems like a good gem for Bleed and Impale) and Ruthless replace to Impale Support (more Physical Damage also works on Bleed).
ehhh now instead of playing, I sit and think :D
The problem is that when playing under Impale and Bleed it is impossible to calculate dmg at all, unless with the help of a fortune-teller lol
But tbh, the buff to phys and Arena Challenger are so damn high that you will obliterate anything with our without even bleeding. So Impale can be good at bursting things quite fast.
Also about your both calculations; don't forget than Lacerate hits twice.
Also about your both calculations; don't forget than Lacerate hits twice.
It's good for impale too? Because now I am trying to understand how exactly Impale works and where I will not go instead of knowing more, I know less: D
Sometimes it is possible to read that it is really a buff for the next hit which is not a separate dmg and it increases the dmg by a portion of dmg from impale (so from previous hits). O_o'
