Oni-Goroshi in Current League - are You gonna farm it or drop it?

So de99ial, my summary of of the eloquent post above is "Think about it the way an author thinks about it and you'll see the statement as being completely consistent." :-)

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Please reread what I said. Carefully. Because I'm definitely not calling it 'insanity'; 'What then do we call it [if it's not insanity]' etc is the important bit. It's not insanity, so what is it? The determinism of this particular grind isn't perfect or absolute -- it's still a game of maybe/maybe not. After a certain point it stops being an outright impossibility, which then makes it a matter of time, but it's not absolute determinism as in, after X repetitions, it will happen. Which is all to say, we're talking about an undetermined eventuality rather than a fixed event.

Yeah i get that. You reffered to "doing same things and expecting different results is definition of insanicty". This is reffered to real life and it says about ppl who say they want change in life but they do nothing to cause that change. In other words some ppl might be insane because they do every time same thing and hope for different result. Thats that.

Then we have Your description of this situation in manner "what if?". What if at some point there will be different result? What call that situation?

My point is: KNOWING that drop will be is EXPECTING some result and eventually achieveing it. Only that thing makes this whole situation different than the first i described (about insanity).

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

As for what She would call it and why She wouldn't share, it's important to take Her perspective here. Unlike the Exile, She knows it's going to happen. The Exile generally doesn't -- if we assume each Exile is fresh off the boat, then they certainly can't know of Uber Hillock's existence. All they know is they reach a certain point in their journey, normal Hillock, and then are suddenly, inexplicably, back where they started. And on and on, for no understandable reason. This is insanity, but pretty much everything from the Exile's perspective is -- there's little reason to their actions beyond greed and inertia. And it remains an act of insanity until that unforeseen inevitability, the spawning of Uber Hillock. It is at that point that the Exile's insanity is revealed to be something else, some glimpse of a larger plan. A tiny taste of soft determinism, maybe.

Yeah from exile perspective yes but dont forgot - they are actual avatars of Players - we can call Player a soul of exile becuse it is invisible for the exile and exiles cannot notice its existence and yet it is the cause of all exiles actions. It is probable that exiles themselfs dont understand whats going on and why they do what they do. We as players dont know that because we dont have insight into exiles minds but to themselfs and other npc all must see as something "not understood". But what we DO matters not what we THINK and for that no matter how insane exiles can be seen they do get things done. And in the end thats all what matters.

In short exiles perspective is not important at all.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

In short, the player knows it's not insanity because they know, sooner or later, there will be a different outcome despite doing the same thing over and again. The Exile doesn't. And She, well, She has Her own way of looking at it.

BTW, 'nice try' comes across as very condescending, as it implies you know better. This isn't really a right/wrong discussion, so please don't do that.

Look im trying express my thoughts in simples way i can. Im not trying to be polite or take time for my sentences to sound dunno how to call it. Im just saying my thoughts but i assume that my companions in conversations understand that is just my opinion despite how it may sounds. There is no other game to sound as something or someone, im just trying to be clear and simple as i can so my thoughts are easy to understand. Dont take it personally ;)

@Turtledove
Yeah i get that but it caused my mind to generate some thoughts on that topic and i decided to share them with Autor. And see what will happen because i really like diving into The Unknown. ;)

Thanks for trying to understand. It was a nice try too. :)

As always it is nice to exchange thoughts with You. Thank You :)

Currently farming this sword..
2 level 7s
1 level 8

no luck yet..

I'll get it eventually.

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x94lite wrote:

Currently farming this sword..
2 level 7s
1 level 8

no luck yet..

I'll get it eventually.

Good luck! I found that when I stopped clearing the zone and started rushing Hillock at level 8, three characters wasn't enough because I could rush Hillock so quickly the zone wouldn't reset by the time I looped around on characters. So I enrolled a fourth scion into my OG academy, and she was leveling and gearing up while the others were speed farming.

Got it!


Finally got it to drop!
Dropped on my Scion after hitting level 8.

It was for sure a long process which was kind of daunting.. but if you're determined enough to get it. You will eventually get uber hillock to spawn. Took me a whole week of farming for playing only 30-40 minutes of killing him over and over again.

took a couple hours to get my three characters to level 8, then rush hillock once at 8.

Insanity is different for every player. Now most would definitely call it insanity to have ground out 27 Oni-Goroshi Swords over 2.5 years of time (most is 4 in one challenge league). I can see delving to > 1000 levels of depth in the mine as insanity. So everyone has their own personal viewpoint on doing TSB runs until into level 8 (or worse, level 9). On the last few swords I had to go past level 8 before I would have any chance of finding Uber Hillock (he is a super recluse) and that is exactly "working as intended" by GGG.

As far as time if you can find UH by, let's say level 7.2x, then it should be about 2.5 hours of exile game time X 3 or 4 (depending upon your total OG farmer rotation) + a couple of minutes for switching to the next character. However #25 was level 8.48 at 4 hours 9 mins, #26 was level 9.06 at 6 hours 30 mins (ugh, another TSL9BC member to get drunk with... oh well, more hands to keep the beach clean), and #27 took my witch to level 8.86 with 5 hours 12 minutes grind time. By the time I was into double digits on OGs farmed I was easily killing UH in under 4 minutes with melee exiles doing it faster (after the melee changes in Legion League) than the ranged exiles. My #27 was with a witch that fire-balled UH to death in 3 minutes, 39 seconds with at least 15 to 20 seconds to get good screen shots for the post.

However, I didn't post my final 27th UH battle here but made a separate Charan's Sword tribute post to commemorate the event:

My final tribute to Charan's Sword (#27 farmed to = the number of Rebirth cards needed for an OG)

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Edit: Come PoE 2 I will have to get the real Japanese OniGoroshi and drink a final farewell forever to Charan Sword farming.

Demon Slayer 'Onigoroshi'

"

Arrowneous wrote:

Demon Slayer 'Onigoroshi'

Fun little fact about that and other usages of 'oni' in common Japanese -- it's more like ogre than demon. Japanese kids don't play 'tag'; they play 'Onigokko' (with the oni being 'it'). They don't play 'hide and seek', but instead 'oni-kakure' (lit. 'hiding oni').

The Western interpretation of 'demon' is probably closer to the Japanese Akuma (dark magic [thing], give or take), maoh (dark magic king) or mazoku (supernatural beings, usually evil). These are much grimmer terms that skew closer to the occult and Japanese concepts of 'hell' and 'punishment' than mere fantasy or mythology. Akuma you might recognise from Street Fighter -- he was originally Gouki (great demon, give or take). Akuma is also the Japanese Christian name for Satan.

Another interesting thing is the kanji for 'ki' in Gouki (and a bunch of other related terms) is the same as 'Oni': 豪 (gou) 鬼 (ki).

As for the sword name, it's a deliberate misnomer. A poor translation by the character who named it; he was thinking more of the Greek 'dæmon' (guiding spirits, good or bad) or the English 'demon' as some lingering abstract that brings ruin (eg 'the demons of his youth came back to haunt him'). it is also not a coincidence that that alcoholism/addiction is also considered a demon here, especially given the fact that Charan, the sword's first wielder, basically gets addicted to wielding OG, albeit less dramatically and blatantly than, say, Elric to Stormbringer in the Michael Moorcock series.

Last fun fact:

Oni can also mean...troll.

;)

Good sake, Wandering Poet is my favorite. I think it is the same brand just a different cost? I think I have some Nigori in the fridge. I'll go get some.