Trade Manifesto

so... i can play for a solid year, accumulate a vast amount of riches, but cannot spend said riches on the item that i need. this is hugely frustrating... feels hugely impolite when i message 20 people for 1 thing... and feels hugely interruptive when i have to blow a portal and respond immediately to a buyer lest they move on to one of the other 20 people they have also already messaged.

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ArchSecter wrote:

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I think the reason is that even if they made trade easier, GGG thinks that it would still benefit the traders the most, because most players would still not use those systems. I get this from the part where they say that if you’re reading the post your among the most engaged players.

That would change drastically if the trade interface was in the game, where everyone can see it.

tencent's stance on trade is really baffling. If they didn't want easy trading, they shouldn't have introduced (paid) trade tabs and should block TFT somehow.

No, they just want trading to be only for a few people (and those can accumulate any item power they want). Dunno why, but I can understand a lot of tinfoil-hatty comments regarding RMT, even if I don't believe in them.

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SisterBlister wrote:

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ArchSecter wrote:

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I think the reason is that even if they made trade easier, GGG thinks that it would still benefit the traders the most, because most players would still not use those systems. I get this from the part where they say that if you’re reading the post your among the most engaged players.

That would change drastically if the trade interface was in the game, where everyone can see it.

tencent's stance on trade is really baffling. If they didn't want easy trading, they shouldn't have introduced (paid) trade tabs and should block TFT somehow.

No, they just want trading to be only for a few people (and those can accumulate any item power they want). Dunno why, but I can understand a lot of tinfoil-hatty comments regarding RMT, even if I don't believe in them.

There's nothing tinfoilly about it. Even harvest got the axe because RMT was down [Removed by Support].

Regarding trade...I have got used to the system and adjusted how I do things to minimize the BS. Now that being said, that still does not solve what has become a real issue this past league and that is people spamming and when you invite them they accept...you return to HO and then they drop never to be heard from again. This happened hundreds of times this league and very infrequently previously.

This obviously demonstrates that players have decided to spam trade and that is a real problem that snowballs as more and more people get frustrated.

So, to review. I am fine with trade to a certain extent - I price appropriately, try to sell quickly, I don't penny pinch when buying, etc. In past leagues it was buying stuff that was horrible, now it is selling also. Just saying....

Anyway dealing with trade every once in a while I underprice something and I get spammed which causes me to go to POEtrade and figure out the proper price. That sort of thing is somewhat valuable so it's not all bad.

I don't even get hyped anymore about the upcoming leagues or expansions because of this trade system which makes me quit every league.
An auction house would be ideal and preferred by the majority but since it's not wanted by GGG for some weird reasons, at least they should make a compromise and integrate the trade into the game and also a price history tool that would let you check the average selling price of your item (like those automated 3rd party apps do in the background).

I think the best approach would be to make the trade accessible from your hideout and allow the buyers to travel to your hideout and browse your publicly listed stash tabs where they can perform a trade by themselves for the asked price. So that would mean they can take your item from the stash tab if they meet the required currency in the trade window. Of course, as long as they're not in your party they wouldn't be able to interact with your portals or anything else in your hideout.

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hdvlad wrote:

An auction house would be ideal and preferred by the majority but since it's not wanted by GGG for some weird reasons, at least they should make a compromise and integrate the trade into the game and also a price history tool that would let you check the average selling price of your item (like those automated 3rd party apps do in the background).

You should think with your head instead of relying on third party tools.

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hdvlad wrote:

I think the best approach would be to make the trade accessible from your hideout and allow the buyers to travel to your hideout and browse your publicly listed stash tabs where they can perform a trade by themselves for the asked price. So that would mean they can take your item from the stash tab if they meet the required currency in the trade window. Of course, as long as they're not in your party they wouldn't be able to interact with your portals or anything else in your hideout.

And what if you can not put your stash public? Ever thought about those players too?

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Reinhart wrote:

You should think with your head instead of relying on third party tools.

How hypocritical throwing an aggressive comment without an argument.

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Reinhart wrote:

And what if you can not put your stash public? Ever thought about those players too?

Should I suggest your own advice to use your head? I think GGG offering one or a few public stashes for free to everyone would fix that issue easily.

Or maybe you're one of those who profit on this horrendous trade system by price fixing or botting and that's why you wouldn't want it fixed.

P.S.: if anyone wants an example of a nearly perfect Auction House, look at Entropia Universe's, the markup and price history features are genius.

leagu after leagu bots become more and more powerful and affect trade more and more... its only worse

this leagu its become better so i hope new leag will be even better and GGG will ban bots much more often and more bans

Even after the stream last night, it feels like they are confusing easy/hard trading with frustration free/frustration heavy trading.

They way I see it is that they are just avoiding the problem and taking the easy way out. Don't need to think about how easy it is to get items if there is no trading house. We can just rely on players' interactions with each other to slow things down.

The problem with this is that you are now relying on a human element to balance your game for you. Unfortunately there are people that are uncivil, impolite, deceitful, and selfish, to name a few traits... Even if they are 1 in a 100, and there are 99 perfect decent humans playing, you will always have a bad taste left in your mouth of this game once you encounter the rotten apples. No matter how many 'good' players you interact with.

My suggestion is to rather put in mechanisms that you can control as a company. Don't rely on people to do the right thing.

Some ideas I have seen around the threads:
* Limits on amounts of daily trades on the auction/trade house;
* Commission fees that scale with asking price making you think twice about buying something;
* Needing to go to someones hideout and use a self service trade kiosk or something, without the need to have them drop out of instances.

There are plenty of ways to approach this. leaving it up to the good intentions of 'civil' humans is not the best way in my opinion.

You can remove the frustration without affecting your easiness of trade principle much.

RenegadeWolf

The issue with trading is not that it's too easy or too hard, it's that it's annoying. New players have no chance in the market, and if they need to buy stash tabs, download 3rd party programs, look through 90 hours of tutorials they will forever find it off putting. That's all there is to it.

PoE has come a long way and is easily my top 1 game even with these flaws, but they are flaws.

Do we really need to get hand cancer just because devs don't want to make picking items up easier?
Do we have to make trading an absolutely disgusting experience just because devs think having an accessible integrated tool makes trading too easy?
Don't even get me started on the flasks, literally on pain meds.

Trading right now is not social at all.
All you do is whisper someone, then their overlay pings them, they click a couple of buttons and our overlays say thank you to one another.
I have ZERO conversations.

I mean come on already, i don't want to talk to anyone, i just want to play and buy stuff from other people without it annoying me every single time.

I'll keep playing whether you change the trading system or not, but the reasons you brought out are meaningless. It's a shame that a game this good still needs 10 000 apps to be running in the background to make trading even possible.

As others have said, you should at least make an integrated tool that does the same thing that overlays do - price checks etc. But whatever, your game I guess.

PS. Trading on standard is close to impossible, because no-one even answers your whispers like 70% of the time. God.