Trade Manifesto

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goldenguti wrote:

As moste people said: change is very needed. The scheme for trading looks like this:
1: put something on sale
2: wait for someone to whisper
3: invite him to party
4: stop what you're doing
5: teleport to hideout (which is even more inconvinient during acts)
6: find that item in stash
7: send trade request
8: check items
9: write ty
10: go back to what you were doing.

Situation is even worse when You're searching for a specific item and noone is willing to do that 10 steps (which is most of the cases, who even bothers for 1c?)
I think the easiest solution to try with a chance to progress in the future is a system in which You must only accept in a prompt window (which not ofc interferes with the "fight" screen) "Do You want to sell xx for xx (listed price: xx)" and You press yes or no. That's it. No unnecessary actions. The item is sold, You get the currency, the guy gets the item.

If it works, the next step would be fully automated process where You put something on auction house and someone is buying it without any prompts. Just an information that it was sold and You get xx currency.

I could not agree more! Please fix your trading-system :)

Map trading has to be fixed it shouldnt be difficult spamming 15 people to get one map isnt making the game harder it makes it dumb. Have no other real issues. But something needs changed in Map trading

In a nut shell, I think simply deploy a traditional trading mechanism might kill the game. However, if we looking at those concerns from an innovative angles they can be a great point to make POE shine even brighter. I mean for someone who never play diablo or POE looking at the decision of implementing POE's large skill tree , they would have thought it is a bad idea but then POE turn it to be the best selling point!


Below just a few different angles. If one willing to look at it from constructive, she/he may see some light in it.
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Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
-> maybe serve a point to innovate a use for uesless item than just vendor it? (eg. leveling unique can be used as upgrade material? ).
Easy trade means reducing drop rates
-> why must a game only limit its core end game design with only item grinding?

Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
-> how about impose incentive of limitation of number of trades ? also limitation to balance the two end of traders.

Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation
-> this maybe a concern. But maybe with data analytic (Machine learning) capability, automation can be pick up and auto bann slightly easier in the coming years?

I understand the point GGG is trying to make... items are unique.. yes but tahts only true for gear items..do you know whats not so unique ? maps and currency. I play video games to have fun and not to get annoyed and frustrated :/ let the current trade state for gear items but introduce some automatic trade feature for maps and currency. Everytime I want to buy something alike it makes me wanna puke on my screen...

Exalts pushed 150c this league. Are you going to ban the trading bots this league? Whenever trading currency its all I run into, hardly ever actual players. I like trading being pretty normal, the addition of an official trading API is great. I think that is a nice medium for trading still. Chaotic Neutral is how I'd describe POE trading.

What's the point of an auction house? When you will be able to buy the best gear at any time, it will just make the game easier. Now you need to make a network in the game. You can get maps and stuff like that through people you know as well, instead of trading for it.

gioef auction house so i dont need to deal with 500 afkppl and trolls or ppl that cant speak english

Allow trading WHITE (no mods) maps to be allowed to trade automatically like some king of trade vendor where ppl can place their maps for price (can be BULK too if they are WHITE).

And start delering bots! Pls do something to stop all bots! ANYTHING TO STOP BOTS!

Please make an auction house hub at home waypoint at act 5/10 or somewhere else centralized. The point is so it can help show MTX, prevent account/bot able to access to the AH too soon.
If AH with gears is no then just low currency/map for starter.

Ban bots, should be any who stick to the AH any unusual amount of time, player should be allowed to report suspicious character.

"

Chris wrote:

Before long, people used item linking to set up shops within the trade forums. This was expected, because the goal of item linking was to prove ownership of items (so that people could know that you still have the item before they make you an offer). These shops became complicated and people made tools that let users manage their shops and post to them efficiently. So far, so good.

Ok. he basically himself solved this bullshit AH argument forever.

Introducing...

SHOP TAB.

Instead of outsourcing your job to user made tools and your shitty website shop alternative, step up and make it an integrated game feature.

If this was an intended and expected, if you really wanted people to make their own virtual shop to be able to sell their items, this is the solution right here.

Only difference is, it SHOULDN'T be outsourced to PoE forums but it should be a full integrated game feature.

You can have slots in that tab dedicated to each item base type (Helm, Chest, Boots bla bla) and a special subslots for lets say 10 currency types and 10 map types and limited number of other different item variants.

Put limitations on number of items applicable to this tab to stop bots and flippers from manipulating the market with 10000 listings each.

Also, as many suggested, limit the number of possible trades per day. Normal player rarely does more then 50 trades per day, while currency flippers and bots do that much per minutes usually.

If your interest is to make people play the game, current trade system does not support it since its much more easy and profitable to just trade whole day then grind away endlessly for pointless and meaningless drops that should provide "a sense of gratification" that happens once in a million years (as stated in manifesto).

Link them up in a ingame indexer that is searchable FROM WITHIN THE GAME. Don't allow buyout options. Allow bidding options, where sellers set (or dont have to) the starting price and time duration they wish for item to be listed.

When it ends, item is not automatically sold, player is notified when he logs in. Buyer that set the highest bid is in reserved slot for that listing and others cannot bid anymore unless the seller decides he doesn't want to sell it but relist it.

System checks buyers stash tabs to make sure he has the currency he stated to actually finish the purchase. If he bids, the system ignores the same amount for any further bids preventing players from pricefixing shit by making endless bid offers.

The highest bidder has the name of sellers listing and information about is he online, afk, or is he offline AND the time stamp of when did he log out.

So he can evaluate is it worth the waiting if the person goes offline for more then 24 hours...

this is literally the perfect solution for the current issue and by your own words, IT WAS EXPECTED.

Now, do the community a favor and please DO what we expected for years now.

This is not an AH system and there could be many many more steps implemented to prevent any type of abuse. Not to mention, the current "bots would run ah" argument is invalid since your trade system is spread out through multiple websites and gimmick systems that only make it more tedious and easier for bots to manipulate.

If you would have an cohesive ingame system that can actually track trades and market behavior in game FULLY and to EVERY EXTENT; it would, in fact become much easier for you to detect and act on botting and market manipulative issues.

There is, in fact a similiar system in the real world, called MARKET REGULATIONS, which are placed there to prevent any abuse of the system by keeping the buyer and seller mechanics of the real world trading system in control and checking them for possible errors which are then acted up.

This is exactly the problem with existing trade system, is that its totally unregulated because of your own design philosophy that is wrong on so many levels and deserves a topic on its own that you would never accept because you stick by your beliefs and do not to want to reconsider being wrong on the issue.

I know you say you listen to your players but your design direction tells completely otherwise as there are shitload of inconsistencies plaguing it since if you spent 1 day reading your forum you would see exactly why, as many others pointed out illogical flaws of your reasoning that were never adressed.

This is not that type of suggestion.
This is literally you giving yourself the solution Chris. Please.
Don't listen to me, re-read your own paragraph and LISTEN TO YOURSELF CHRIS. Please.

As it stands, TRADING is much more rewarding then playing the game, no matter how retarded or tedious it is. Since perfect item will drops once in a million years when the whole solar system aligns, with gods blessing, in your favor, playing the game hoping for that good drop is pushed in the back in favor of just grinding currency value per hour and exchanging it for the items you actually need and benefit from.

Shop Tabs would just make this process much much simpler and ease it up for many players, and possibly with further limitations would finally stop market sharking by the 5% of playerbase population which manipulates the market to such a degree most people never want to engage with it in the first place, as your post itself states.

And you wonder why you cant keep a proper playerbase?


There is absolutely no excuse to not consider this idea as it is, as you said yourself, EXPECTED for people to trade in this manner.

However, what is not EXPECTED BY THE PLAYER, is that he should do this OUTSIDE of the game alt tabbing to the forum. There is simply no fucking excuse you can make up and bullshit your way through by elaborate and pointless explanations of your agenda.

This is truly a legitamete solution that should seriously be at least fucking considered, or as many others said.. TESTED.

Make a temporary league for a week or two where this is a league option and let the playerbase decide themselves by numbers and possible aftermath voting to further verify and doublecheck the numbers.

I really want to play this game, but I can't unsee through all the unecessary bullshit plaguing it, as with many others feeling the same. Ignoring this just shows you don't really care about your playerbase contrary to popular belief, and is the reason why 3 weeks into betrayal Steam playercount is down to 30-60k from an alltime peak.

Yes, leagues are fun. But they don't keep the players interested enough as the game itself forbids its own features to be more rewarding? Player count does not agree with this. Listen to the numbers. And I bet my ass off that this is most talked about issue that affects those numbers.

*Also a quick note, if Shop Tab would purchasable in the game shop, MANY PEOPLE AS THEY STATED WOULD NOT MIND PAYING FOR a regulated trade option.

You know who would very much mind it? Bot owners who would have to repurchase it over and over if you constantly ban them since you know, you could actually regulate your own market and stop this insane trade abuse nonsense that is happening for years now.

This is simply a win win solution that is, in fact, explained in your own design philosophy stated in Trade Manifestio.

I am done. Unless Chris adresses this with his bullshit overvocative termconfusing bullshit counterargument trying to explain himself, I am not spending 1 more fucking dollar of my money or 1 minute of my time on this game.

I love you PoE. I really do. But I cannot force myself to ignore the obvious bullshit that just makes the game unreasonable, tiresome and tedious... for nothing.

So long exiles, I really want to hear your opinions or possible ways how fanboys will try to attack this reasoning as it stems from their own lord and savior Chris.

Thank you for your time PoE, its been an awesome ride.
Since I know no way they will adress this along thousands of other players pointers to Trade Manifesto's illogical conclusions, and I see that they didn't change their design philosophy in years I have little faith they will act upon it.

So I wanna see what the community thinks about this?
Give me more bullshit excuses at this point they have been exposed so many times they are beyond pathetic at this point.

Thank you for your time.
Much love.