Trade Manifesto

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Ygidua wrote:

But isn´t this a terrible situation for us and the developers? ARPG´s were always about finding your loot, that´s why Blizzard removed the AH. They wanted us to find gear again instead of trading, but somehow, GGG did not get the message and still believes in an ARPG that you can only play if you trade. :(

The moment when you find a nice item is important, I still know how I found my first Tal armor at D2, it was a big day for me. Or my first BER rune at CS, it´s those things that drive you forward, therefore GGG should really think about removing trading and adjusting the drop rates.

So on D2 was hard to get the loot you need and that made it good, because it felt good then you finally get it. But on poe same thing is bad. Somehow its "impossible" to play. And btw D2 also had trading. I'm just guessing, but i think its because you aren't the same person that played d2 many years ago. Don't blame the game for not following you along.

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Ygidua wrote:

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Chached wrote:

If you are trying to upgrade your gear through playing instead of trading you are simply doing it wrong. You will never be able to play long enough or kill enough to actually get the gear to achieve a strong build in a league.

If you are new and are trying to do it yourself, you will fail. Path of Exile is Path of (horrible)Trade.

But isn´t this a terrible situation for us and the developers? ARPG´s were always about finding your loot, that´s why Blizzard removed the AH. They wanted us to find gear again instead of trading, but somehow, GGG did not get the message and still believes in an ARPG that you can only play if you trade. :(

The moment when you find a nice item is important, I still know how I found my first Tal armor at D2, it was a big day for me. Or my first BER rune at CS, it´s those things that drive you forward, therefore GGG should really think about removing trading and adjusting the drop rates.

You are missing a few important bits that obliterates your point: when D3 removed the AH, they also increased the drop rate tremendously, wich makes sense, as if there is absolutely no way of finding gear outside monsters, only the no-lifers and boters would ever be able to complete a build if the drop rate of good stuff was closer to D2 or the patch before the removal of the AH.

It created a nasty and predictable side effect that was the last straw for a huge portion of the players: because finding loot became too easy, it also meant that finding good stuff carried no meaning: there is no emotion behind finding a bis item if that thing drops every 10-ish hours of farm. Currently D3 is infamous for having most of the players with full builds by the end of the 1st month of the season and spending the remaining months just craming higher rolls, and yup, looking for just another item that have better rolls but its otherwise a carbon copy of your current item gets old mighty fast.

And they were never able to get that theorical sweet spot where the drop rate was hard enough to be challenging but still not too harsh for 90% of the players... and that spot likely dont exist. Just like its pretty much impossible for a self-funded player to reach shaper in a timely manner unless he commits to a rather limited pool of builds that can work with only crafted stuff from a player with minimal currency to spend on those benches, but if GGG changed the drop rate so those players could get to the end content with almost any "standard" builds, the game would be on life suport in a spam of months.

There are others aspects behind it, sure: since trading is just a way to direct your grind at the end of the day, they also caused the players to have next to no ways to direct their farms toward a certain goal; some players DO enjoy the trading aspect and they removed it giving nothing in return; the decision was another in a big clump of very arbitrary others that constantly made the players feel they were corraled towards a specific playstyle(yeah, many people say it happens here, but its never nowhere near as bad). But botton line is: it just made the game more restrictive and had basically no positive effects.

You want to skip trading and play self-found? Do it! You are sick of always running 14 vault and want to fully complete the atlas? Sure buddy! You are sick of just killing in general and instead just want to hoard stuff and collect shiny things? Many players dont aprove but as long as you dont make things that activelly screws the other players like manipulating the prices on the entire server, WHY NOT? Let us have more options on how we play! Dont fu*ing corral us to do nothing but killing to progress on the game!

and again bulshit about trade market... u have medieval looks on trade. go back urself 700years back and just give us tradehouse

For me the trade system for items I can live with... Maps is where it goes to shit.

157 different maps available now.

Trying to buy maps early in a league can be a real pisser... Your asking someone to quit playing to sell you a 1 alc item.

Whispers can go into the teens till you get someone to respond.

You end up spending a half hour doing whisper after whisper. Time spent that is wasted doing something that should be unnecessary. Every time I get stuck doing it I think to myself is this how I want to spend my play time. Doing whispers instead of play.

Latest patch notes -

"You are now twice as likely to obtain maps you have not yet completed on the Atlas as maps you have. This is intended to help players who choose to play solo complete their Atlas."

The above is a step in the right direction.

A further step would be setting up an auction house just for maps. Not items.

As the game evolves and the map base becomes increasingly larger this will become one hell of a choke point. Also a point of FRUSTRATION for players trying to play instead of spending game time whispering.

Items and maps are two different metas as far as the game is concerned. I understand your philosophy on trade and items. Maps on the other hand are content. How many hours of frustration do you want to inflict on your players when it comes to purchasing a map.

Thanks
NS

we need auction house pls
thx

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Chris wrote:

For items to matter, it's important that they can be traded to other players. It's important that you could give the item to the other player, if they were able to convince you into it. For this reason, almost nothing in Path of Exile is bound to your account

This is not a true statement in itself, the assumption is false.

It is seemingly a relevant statement only because drops are raw rng and not intelligently designed in PoE.

All the problems of easy trade(and also those of inefficient trade) can be solved with the very best items being bound and intelligent drops.

For example the ones you mention -

- Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.

- Easy trade means reducing drop rates

- Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great

- Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation

Would also be practically removed with an intelligent drop system paired with balanced itemization among playstyles. Additionally problems like all those things people complain about that are the direct result of current inefficient trading system would be removed.

There can still easily be trade and economy games as witnessed by other games like wow etc in the past where they retain the very best items as bound.

I realize this is not very pertinent to PoE as this ship has already sailed and it would probably be near impossible to redesign the game like this as it is now. It is just a pointer for the future, because this game form is achaic and even that the very best items can be traded and botted provides a heavy reduction in the quality of the game and a clear switch away from the best player at playing the character wins towards those who are best at managing economy etc stands extremely strongly - and as a such it is an impurity in regards of being a game all about the gameplay.

PoE is more like an ATRPG(Action Trading Role Playing Game) than a game focused around being good at playing characters.

As for me, trading is whateverish. I Like it to some extent, but i do not like it to take a primary role i prefer it when i feel like it but not as a multiplier to my efficiency in game. The values i price the highest are gameplay of actually playing and mastering the character and also potential for theorycrafting returns. In another word - i am all about the hacking and slashing(action) - paired with characterization(rpg) and trading is just a neccessary evil, an impurity.

Please increase stack size in all stash tabs! Currency tabs, fragment tabs, Map tabs, etc
Really needed options for bough stuff like this.

Make "trade-only" client and make it very compact and disable move around any area (only hideout to hideout) moves and not load all content, only stash and tabs/items for trade

Would be nice if you will make feature like this:
When you trading with NPC, they can take currency directly from your stash to make a purchase, so it would be nice if other things will interract with currency the same way. For example - your scrolls of wisdom wont dissapear from inventory, since you got them in stash, like alterations, alchs, and other currency. it takes some unnecessary time to use portals, take currency from stash to make interactions with boxes, items or smth else you can find on map.

Hi, interesting read.

As a player who has traded for 14+ years in WoW, Rift, ESO, and the D3 Gold Auction House (never made it into the D3 Real Money Auction House), I have a fondness for trading. Not to get rich, but to get some better equipment. One reason: Example: I started playing D3 on launch day, and it was 11 months later when I found my first Legendary (I think this equals your Unique level). I'm retired and played that game almost all day and night. Obviously, their drop-rate left a lot to be desired lol. NOTE: I got my first Unique in this game, an amulet, on my fourth day of playing.

I've only been playing PoE for about two weeks, and am really enjoying it.

I understand your reason for not having an auction house, but like to pass some info on to you. As I'm getting more comfortable with my characters, I can spend more time reading the chat, and noticed the past 3 days that several players made comments about the inability to sell/buy stuff. The reason was that the players selling things are not in the Standard league (I'm playing standard only). Comments such as, "I sent a note to 25 players and not one replied to me." The last three or four players sent between 23 to 25 notes out. I don't know exactly how it works, but I guess those players have to leave wherever they are and come into the standard league, and they're just not willing to do that. So, trade in standard seems to be almost non-existent.

I think if we could solve this problem, and with your continuing support we may be able to do that, it may get easier to trade with others.

Regards,

KC

"

John_Kacey wrote:

Hi, interesting read.

As a player who has traded for 14+ years in WoW, Rift, ESO, and the D3 Gold Auction House (never made it into the D3 Real Money Auction House), I have a fondness for trading. Not to get rich, but to get some better equipment. One reason: Example: I started playing D3 on launch day, and it was 11 months later when I found my first Legendary (I think this equals your Unique level). I'm retired and played that game almost all day and night. Obviously, their drop-rate left a lot to be desired lol. NOTE: I got my first Unique in this game, an amulet, on my fourth day of playing.

I've only been playing PoE for about two weeks, and am really enjoying it.

I understand your reason for not having an auction house, but like to pass some info on to you. As I'm getting more comfortable with my characters, I can spend more time reading the chat, and noticed the past 3 days that several players made comments about the inability to sell/buy stuff. The reason was that the players selling things are not in the Standard league (I'm playing standard only). Comments such as, "I sent a note to 25 players and not one replied to me." The last three or four players sent between 23 to 25 notes out. I don't know exactly how it works, but I guess those players have to leave wherever they are and come into the standard league, and they're just not willing to do that. So, trade in standard seems to be almost non-existent.

I think if we could solve this problem, and with your continuing support we may be able to do that, it may get easier to trade with others.

Regards,

KC

Players who start new league forget to make their tabs from previous league non public, thus it seems they still want to sell those items.
Trying to buy anything in standard in the first month of new league is very hard. You better ask in global and add friends. Chance is, dedicated std player has 2 copies of every unique already (like me).