Trade Manifesto

#smarterThanBlizz

So here are my thoughts as a casual gamer with over 800 hours in the game, starting from the end of the perandus league...

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Chris wrote:

It's important to note that some difficulty to trade is intentional.

So why is it "intentionally difficult":

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Chris wrote:

The difference in magnitude of trading (and hence item acquisition and progress) between non/low-traders and heavy traders is gigantic. While a regular player would be lucky to accumulate a small handful of Exalted Orbs in a league, a trader might reach hundreds in the same timeframe. This enables them to fully-gear Shaper-capable characters while the non-trader is still in mid-tier maps or lower.

So because SOME people trade a lot and accumulate a lot of wealth all other users must suffer?

Because:

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Chris wrote:

The significant differences in character power and player progression caused by trade has already created a situation where Path of Exile is very hard for some players and quite easy for others. Some people never stand a chance of seeing some of the Atlas of Worlds content, while others can rather quickly defeat it and are looking for new challenges. We're tentatively okay with the degree to which this occurs currently, but it would be much worse if trading were made substantially easier.

So this game is tailored to the probably less than 10% that trade and play a lot and are able to properly handle the end-game challenges. And that's what you're happy with? The small percentage that manages to get 36 (or even 24) challenges? (Stats usually show around 15% getting 24 challenges and a whopping 3% getting 36!)

We "casual players" that don't spend 8-hours a day playing the game and trading a lot (but still invest money in the game!) aren't allowed playing the full end game, because we don't grind and trade enough to accumulate enough wealth to buy the gear needed for high tier maps?

People like me who don't want to sell items as I want to spend the small amount of time I have actually gaming and not going back to the hideout each time to sell something. So easier trade would allow casual players to trade (more)... The gap between non and heavy traders would stay the same (or grow), but players would be spread more evenly instead of a real gap. Gap may even be smaller with more items on the market and lower prices...

If you want to give the top players an additional challenge, create difficulty levels like D3 does. Finished Shaper? Then play on a higher difficulty. But allow more players to actually play through all content.

Let me put it this way: those top players that trade a lot? They will be able to get gear to kill whatever you throw at them, probably within a few days. So why not change the game so that most players can actually enjoy it!

And I completely agree with ACGIFT's post.

So this only leaves trade bots and price fixing. With instant buy-outs price fixing will be more difficult, as their cheaply offered items can (and will) actually be sold. Leaves the other side of price fixing: buying desired items cheap and hoarding them to sell them for much higher prices... Which is a lot more difficult to fix.

That leaves bots. Whitelisting in the API is an option. But you also know which accounts buy a lot. And which accounts use the API. Shouldn't be that difficult to cross-reference the two (even if they're using separate accounts for the API and the bot).

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We believe that it is more fun to slowly and iteratively upgrade a character over time and to have a longer journey to gear a character up.

What brand of toilet paper would you suggest I use to wipe my ass? "We are going to give you the freedom to build a musclebound heavily armoured spellcaster buuuut...we won't let you choose how you get there."

Players seem to be finally coming to terms with the fact that a more fair and transparent trade platform would actually reduce the disparity between the players who spend 8+ hours daily trading and the players who spend 1-2 hours daily enjoying the created content. Yes there will always be players who buy low and sell high, but, a new trade system would effectively limit their ability to lowball a trade only to then resell at a ridiculous markup by removing the "used car salesmanship" aspect of trade and implementing a standardized platform that won't try to trick you into buying that "super rare" worthless item. Instead the player base, and not the select few wordsmiths, will decide how much an item is truly worth through the simple action of buying or ignoring a trade posting...as it sort of currently does in an obscure and not widely apparent to new players kind of way.

The way this works is the first inexperienced player searches items similar to the one they want to sell and can easily find the "average" price of said item. A trader might then see a smaller but still reasonable profit in buying said item and relisting it for a higher price. The next inexperienced player then finds said item in the auction and purchases it. All three parties benefit greatly and no, this does not in fact end in the zombie apocalypse. Don't believe me? Use your favorite search engine to search "PoE Ninja". It is a website that shows the current and recent market value(In very generalized terms) of a vast majority of items. Why would that exist if this were not an issue? More importantly, why would PoE Ninja be vital to safeguard those exalts if it wasn't relevant?

That having been said, thank you for finally taking a step toward integrating a nearly vital part of the game by designing the new trade website. I personally can't wait until the trade playing field is leveled by something IN GAME, however, I still greatly appreciate the effort you put into the trading platform and look forward to further advancements!

I'll finish with this little nugget:
The success of a home grown business in the 1920's depended almost entirely on return customers, that sentiment is mathematically flawed as you will find that return customers eventually grow old and die(or otherwise cease to be your customer). While today's successful business model certainly includes existing customer retention, it still relies primarily on a growing customer base. You won't alienate your existing customers by bringing new customers into the fold, you'll only be giving us new friends to enjoy the created content with.

Breach league was released in 2.5, Legacy league was 2.6, and that's when ssf was introduced.

A thought for some of the folks that think alt-tabbing to a trade site is the friction that decreases trade participation. If anything, the trade sites are very useful.

What keeps me from trading with people is private messaging. It just seems plain rude to me to pm someone I don't even know. Disruptive even. They could be in a map or in a labyrinth and I'm going to message them for a 1 aclh or 1 chaos item?

To reduce trade friction, you need buyouts. I can't pretend to understand why the devs think this trivializes or cheapens the game. The games that include this usually have a lot of bind on equip items. But I believe that is mainly to dissuade botting rather than trading.

The game is already free. It can't get any cheaper than free.

Think of the millions that never install the game, even though its free. Then think of the 10s of thousands that install it but never make it to end game.

If 80% of your player base never makes it to endgame or makes a trade, then I have to believe the GGG thinks making trading easier will piss off the 20% of players that do make it to endgame. Maybe somehow they think this is the core audience that they need to cater to.

The unknown is scary. Will instant buyouts bring in a new crowd that will replace the vocal minority? Can be scary to think about.

You will never Be able to replace Poe.trade.

Thinking you will is futile.
Work with Poe.trade trade. Dont attempt to push them out.

Lets wish in 2018 we will have better economy and system!

After reading a story on Rock-Paper-Shotgun I returned from a 5 year absence to see if the AH was already implemented.

Sadly the Devs are still wrong about basic economy principles.

The best way to make high end content available to the 90% that don't trade is to make trade fully automated by an AH.

The premise that people farm for equipment is false, because the odds of getting equipment that matches your needs are close to zero, so everybody does the rational thing which is farm for currency, and trade for high-end / final gear.

The entire issue here is not of logic, but social: the developers and their friends belong to the 10% that have high wealth, or to the 1% that have cornered the market.

This gives status. This makes the elite. Being better than others is what drives people.

If trade was automated, any 7 year old with more free time would have super gear.

I'm not saying this is a bad decision, maybe this game has a good community because of such elitism.

But for old guys like me (40 years old, 31 years of gaming) who don't have the free time to grind and just want to go through content, I just wish the automated tools were there.

I'll return in 5 years and see if things have improved. PoE will still be here, because its such a great game, but only for the 10%.

I am saddened to see that the Xbox tradeboard is intentionally a bad experience to find items you want. Drop rates and likely hood of finding your own upgrades is already rather low in this game, as well is currency to craft items a rather low drop rate. Your current drop rates do not work with your ideal model of crafting/finding upgrades yourself and incrementally. Streamers and hardcore players will constantly have an edge over more casual and after-work players.

Making systems that hinder users or players is just poor software development and design. Shame on you. Here I thought that you were just busy building other content and fixing bugs, but you are deliberately making the game and interface a pain in the ass to use.