Trade Manifesto

Speaking as a casual player, the trade philosophy is what always made play this game a little bit whenever a new patch came out (because the complexity and gameplay are just great), only to leave it alone after just a short while. If you're not heavily committed to trading or don't master the game in a degree that only the most dedicated players achieve, you'll never even be close to see.. what? 60% of the game's content. It's a pity, because it's a great game.

Can someone from GGG explain me this?

Trade is not intended to be done in PoE but you make and sell premium/essence/divination/currency tabs with public/post option (a bit p2w imo) and majority bought them mostly because that, as we all know that makes trade easier at last you don't need to waste time posting on forum. So your proclamation is sold for few bucks.

You make improvement to API and sponsor sites like PoE.trade, what imo with option like "Live search" and "notifications with sound" destroyed fair trade, items are flipped few times and that makes that big gap with in-game wealth. That opportunity to gather in game wealth in inappropriate way is made by your stubbornness/ignorance for suggestions around in-game trade (AH), you opened Pandora's Box with your trade APIs.

With in game automatic trade system and without APIs you will have more control over trade, it is harder to wrote application what will exploit in game trade system, actual much easier is using browser scripts (at the actual state, sites like poe.trade you don't even need to wrote anything it s already done).

So what makes bigger gap, web sites (with integrated notification system) and applications with use of same exploiting trade API or in-game controlled trade system?

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TheInsanitarium wrote:

Oh, and I would also add another idea of possibly displaying the average values specific trades that were actually completed in the past X hour(s) (specifically Currency, Pages, Fragments, Unique Maps, etc., since raw rare items would be harder to display/calculate averages for). In my opinion, this would help more casual traders to identify the actual current values of items (and hopefully avoid price-fixers/scams).

Yes please. Pricing items seems to be really difficult, having some guidelines would be nice, especially for leaning to trade helping bring more people into it.

In my opinion everyone hates on having an real-time Auction House because they had seen how it can fail on so many other games untill today, but that doesnt mean you just have to copy the mistakes other game have done, that doesnt mean we just simply have to assume that it will be a failure without even trying, thats not realistic at all, you can°t just say .. well... we all have seen how that go with Dialo and how bad of a failure it was, but guess what? Dialo is still there on Top, so imho even them after trying and failed have learned something and imho they can make a better version now if they really want it to happen, because they have learned what was wrong with the first version of it.

The Real problem that Path of Exile might have with an real-time Auction house is not item-decrease-in-value because we already know the values change in time, be it in a new league, or on perma leagues. The real problem is that there are 99% of worthless items and only 1% of items have some kind of value based on current meta, but thats it! theres nothing else to think or talk about it, PoE has 99% useless items that spawn from level 1 to 100, you can°t just pretent its realistic to say an 1 alteration worth of lifesprig will change in price when you added to an automated AH, cuz if it was worthless 1 alt item before the AH, it will still be 1alt worth of crap on sale on the AH anyway, so the implementation of the AH will have no no real impact on Path of Exiles economy whatsoever other, because its not PoE that gives value to their items BUT their community and players, by making it an Meta or Non-Meta at a certain point in time, or in some really crappy PoE moments when GGG tends to nerf the above mentioned items and they drop off the Meta train.

But like ive said for so many other times, ill say it again, that 1alc Lifesprig you can get as drop at level 1 or from Shaper (the last current Boss of the game) ... which yet again is hilarious, has nothing to do with the AH, that exact item will always have the same value, with or without having an AH, the only time it will slightly increase in value is in a day1-3 of a new league and thats about it.
Items in this game tend to self-price in time, because of the high influx of new items, the old items loose value on their own in time so its pretty unrealistic to say that an Auction House will affect them.

Now gameplay-wise, it is indeed affected by the AH, in terms of power and speed, its pretty clear crystal and theres nothing much to add to that, BUT you can limit what items can be sold on the Auction house, by power, lets say for example, we have a new league, Day1, you can set certain limits on the power of the items, like you cannot add one-handed weapons on the AH that have higher pDPS value of 200, eDPS value of 150 and so on, so that way the items listed on the AH cannot greatly affect the gameplay, you can also limit the items max iLvl, you can set limits to only unique, or only magic, or only rare, and you dont need to waste too much time to set it up, it only takes 5 minutes to set such limit parameters, and it can also be automated to increase with time.

There are so so many ways to play with this that its hilarious that noone has even tried it because they start all and everything with a negative mentality, having a negative expectation.

Another example, like the one i already suggested, make an real-time Auction House that has their own currency, like the currency you currently have for the MTX, just one currency and all items on the AH should be sold and valued only based on that currency, thats not available nor useful ingame, but only on the main website/AH.
Lets say a pair of gloves MTX costs 100.000 Mirrors of Kalandra (just a currency example), on the same point a Lifesprig is sold for 0,00001 Mirrors of Kalandra, so in the end this will get people more involved in the trading, the grinding and all the fun stuff, while on the Auction House people will trade for the sole purpose of having more of that 1 kind of currency, you won°t be trading chaos for exalts on this kind of AH, you will trade a Lifesprig for 1 point, and you will use that 1 point you get from selling it to buy an The Anvil, or sell 2 Anvils, get 2 points and buy a Belt of the Deciever because thats sold for 2 Points (ex-of-currency).

This way the ingame currency has no impact on the Auction House, because on this Auction House you will be actually trading your others for other items, and not actual ingame Currency, so the Chinese Currency Bot Farmers will have no interest in our Path of Exile Auction House whatsoever because theres nothing to gain from farming items 24-7, because the points you get from this virtual Auction House can only be used to buy other items, and thats it, for any other currency trades, you can go about trading on poe.trade or just ingame trading.

I think people limit their points of view on previous bad experiences they had on other games so thats why they hate so much the idea of having an real-time Auction House in Path of Exile, and thats just sad.

I love to dig for an item like i do when i want to watch a porn video. Its exciting and fun.

Whats not is to deal with the fact that said item i'm willing to spend currency on is :

1) Already sold but still listed
2) Player AFK / DND
3) Price fixed





When i want to sell an item i hate wasting my time having to study the whole fuckin economy to be sure that i'm not fucked in the ass by some trolly price fixers.

I'm happy and satisfied when i know this item is WORTH 50 and i sell mine 40 cause i want the currency now. Someone with more patience will buy it and make his profit thats fine.

BUT FUCKIN DOUBTING THE VALUE OF ANY SINGLE FUCKING ITEM I WANT TO LIST IS FUCKING PISSING ME OFF.

Having to deal with 2000 tp in and out to make trades is fucking annoying. When i list an item and someones wants it i'll make the fucking effort to tp out of my map. YOU LIST YOU WORK YOUR ASS TO DELIVER IT thats what i'm forcing myself to do, if you don't then anyone who wants to buy an item will have to waste 2 hours of their life.


Dude fuckin wake up for christ sake.

Searching for an item is fun an exciting, being cockblocked is not.

Spending half of my play time thinking if i was scammed by price fixers is not fun.

I rather spend more time studying the game than making sure i'm not selling an item at 20% of the real market value because you don't want to add a fucking instant buy button of some sort.


The way trading is, IS NOT FUN if you want to discover the game ( end game maps and bosses ) OR EVEN PLAYING IT WHILE HAVING FUN ! You have to trade to make decent currency to buy the items you need. But to do that you have to study a whole fuckin economy game on a website..

So Chris fuckin Wilson :

Consequences of Easy Trade (AKA instant buy out) ? More time to play and enjoy your game ( AKA players happy, players retention )

Ps: I'm french my english sux but the way you are making people wasting their time and effort and their trust is just pissing the fuck out of me.

You have a great game but wasting everyone's time because you don't want to add a insta buy out button man.... just wake up already. Don't wait until its too late.


edit: Just think about that :
You spent time making a clone of poe.trade
Imagine someone spend time to clone PoE but add and auction house to it.

Yeah just imagine it.. you will be right to think that this QoL the AH bring to the players will kill the real PoE.

I am bitterly disappointed that a GGG branded and skinned version of POE is the best solution GGG could come up with to address the huge problems that trade has after so many years. It still isn't even integrated into the game client itself.

The problem in my opinion is that GGG deeply misunderstands the fundamental problem: the real issue they should be trying to prevent is not having trade be too *easy*, it is preventing trade being too *fast*.

With that realization, the proper way to address the issue is by having some sort of rate limit on trade per unit time per account. While not a trivial exercise to analyze, this would have the following benefits:

* The UI, affordance, and discoverability for trade could be made maximally polished
* Trade could be properly integrated into the game client
* Asynchronous and offline trading could be permitted
* The ability for trade flipping and monopolistic behavior to control the game would be vastly reduced
* The ability for gold farmers to function would be reduced
* It would narrow the gap between non-traders and top traders
* It would prioritize playing the game over the meta game of trading

I guess the best compromise between the actual trade system and an auction house would be to implement you new trade page directly in game. Alt-tabbing 100 times to copy and whisp players is the most annoying thing when you want to trade something but you meet many AFK/DND/SOLD/SIMPLY NO RESPONSE persons.

Having the wiki page + the trade + a price checking macro + mercury trade + my loot filter running behind the game doesn't help me to feel playing a "complete" game concerning the ergonomics. I have plenty of friends who want to start playing POE because they hear me saying it's so great, but they are very casual players. So how am I supposed to tell them that to enjoy the game, they have to have 2 pages opened in the background to alt-tab constently, a loot filter to download with 2 or 3 tier programms to configure and to run, all of that shit just to feel quite confortable in game and be able to enjoy its experience ? Only because the ergonomics of the game is awful and barely unplayable without all of this for now.

You have the feeling to have the game running in the background in windowed mode because you have to jump in and out the game constently to enjoy the game . . . it's paradoxical and I wish you would at least implement all of this stuff directly in game. It wouldn't ruin the economy or anything because nothing would change in fact, but the quality of life would be improved drastically !

It's not a "manifesto". It's a wall of crap.

I see only one way for peoples who love Path of Exile to respond on this "Manifesto" and show our dedication, absolute boycott on all assets/support packs from Micro-transaction shop.

Hi there,

great initiative.

I found something on my side. When you wrote part of a name you cannot find any result.

Example, write "haku's" and you will have no response.
On poe trade, you will have all haku's weapon

hope it will be implement in game directly to avoid atltabing all time.

Of course with 2 screens, that's not a problem anymore but we do no have all 2 screens^^