[3.x - Discontinued for now] Burning Spectres - Torch the Atlas - HC Shaper, Elder, Uber Atziri
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Psycomantje wrote:
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grimjack68 wrote:
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pelicanada wrote:
ooo. which curse do you think is better for 4 SG's flammability or projectile weakness?
Really tough call there. EW wins for straight up damage... however, PW gives you pierce and knockback, both of which are rather useful, even though the actual damage buff only buffs the little hits, not the laser hits.
Raw numbers says EW. OTOH, I'm using PW, and not really considering switching back.
I had it the otherway arround :) i started with projectile weakness. And switched to flammability. I liked flammability more. Boosts the normal attacks and the lasers. In maps all packs die instant so do rares. And for bossing it had more damage
It's really hard to quantify the effect of either curse for Flammability affects both the laser and the projectile while Proj Weakness naturally only supports the latter. The question is, how often do they use each attack in a given time, in a given situation? My gut feeling is that the projectile is dominant when there's only one target. But maybe it's just better visible.
Now for the projectile alone, PW is obviously more damage for two reasons:
1)The multiplier is slightly higher, a lvl20 PW gives 44% increased damage taken, at 20% quality that becomes 54%, which is simply a more multiplier (unless there's a second effect with "enemy takes increased damage").
Flammability is technically a more multiplier, too, but it suffers from diminishing returns. It's 44% lower resist value at lvl20 implies a 44% more multiplier if and only if the target has exactly 0% fire resist. Now that it already has -50% from EE, it mostly has a negative fire resist already, so the value of Flammability goes down.
2)If there is another mob in the way, the projectile won't hit the boss without the Pierce granted by PW. This isn't relevant for actual solo bosses, but this aspect feels very important to me. I'm thinking of Abyss fights mainly.
I've always used PW since it's the #1 curse in all the SG-centered guides. When I brought it up in this guide, it got shot down by the issue of not supporting the laser. But said opinion has changed so these are my 2 cents.
Really tough call there. EW wins for straight up damage... however, PW gives you pierce and knockback, both of which are rather useful, even though the actual damage buff only buffs the little hits, not the laser hits.
Raw numbers says EW. OTOH, I'm using PW, and not really considering switching back.
I had it the otherway arround :) i started with projectile weakness. And switched to flammability. I liked flammability more. Boosts the normal attacks and the lasers. In maps all packs die instant so do rares. And for bossing it had more damage
It's really hard to quantify the effect of either curse for Flammability affects both the laser and the projectile while Proj Weakness naturally only supports the latter. The question is, how often do they use each attack in a given time, in a given situation? My gut feeling is that the projectile is dominant when there's only one target. But maybe it's just better visible.
Now for the projectile alone, PW is obviously more damage for two reasons:
1)The multiplier is slightly higher, a lvl20 PW gives 44% increased damage taken, at 20% quality that becomes 54%, which is simply a more multiplier (unless there's a second effect with "enemy takes increased damage").
Flammability is technically a more multiplier, too, but it suffers from diminishing returns. It's 44% lower resist value at lvl20 implies a 44% more multiplier if and only if the target has exactly 0% fire resist. Now that it already has -50% from EE, it mostly has a negative fire resist already, so the value of Flammability goes down.
2)If there is another mob in the way, the projectile won't hit the boss without the Pierce granted by PW. This isn't relevant for actual solo bosses, but this aspect feels very important to me. I'm thinking of Abyss fights mainly.
I've always used PW since it's the #1 curse in all the SG-centered guides. When I brought it up in this guide, it got shot down by the issue of not supporting the laser. But said opinion has changed so these are my 2 cents.
Thanks for the detailed info about the curses! Makes me think twice and i might follow up your 2 cents!
Last edited by Psycomantje#6812 on Jan 3, 2018, 8:03:28 AM
Hi, build is looking awesome, but i dont really understand those gem links etc... In this build guide you got 1system or what do u want call it... on your profile-char. another second different gem linking system.. and in videos i see something completely different... what is the real gem linking system??? if u know what i mean... pls
Be kind super noob here, when I first get flame sentinels you mention a 4 link BBRG set up but gems listed after don't match. Am I missing something? What goes in the Red socket? What should I be using around this level with flame sentinels?
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28: If you didn't goof around, you should hit Death Attunement and the extra spectre right about the time you hit 28. Get Flame Sentinels in The Solaris Temple. Slot it in a BBGR 4 link. Specter + LMP/GMP + Minion Damage. Level Animate Guardian in your secondary weapon set. Get Ball Lightning + LMP for EE. Remember to hit mob groups with EE and as soon as one dies hit Flesh Offering.
Thanks, I am getting super hooked on this game. But still trying to grasp all the mechanics.
Last edited by jaredtexasrebel#7101 on Jan 3, 2018, 9:34:15 AM
Is it same gem setup for SG for mapping? as it is for 3tv 1wm?
raise spectre - elemental focus support - burning damage support - swift affli - minion damage - minion totem resist.
Thanksful for answer. might swap to SG if this is truly the best for mapping.
6L setup for SG's are Raise Spectre, GMP (substitute for Slower Projectiles for bosses if you like but not really needed), Spell Echo, Minion Damage, Elemental Focus and Controlled Destruction.
This setup farms all content. Properly geared and gemed SG's clear speed far faster than even flame golem enchanced VG's and boss DPS is about the same, Shaper, Uber Atziri and the guardians melt.
Can check my gear for the gems I use, it's far from perfect and honestly I'm far too lazy to trade to upgrade but other than the neck the total for all my gear is a little over 100c. I kill far faster with this SG setup than I did with the 5L 4 VG's using the same rest of the gear prior to the 6 linking.
SG's can also do Uber Atziri just fine, I haven't run her this season but in previous seasons the regen was more than enough to outheal the reflected damage and can tank her AOE's just fine. Shapers beam doesn't even budge the health bars, no need to ever convocation his fight unless you use AG, he will take damage if you let him.
*** Most of my gems are lower level or in odd spots like rings, these are low level ones I am running on anything below T16 maps for the purpose of leveling, don't pay much attention to the levels of the gems, I have copies of 21 for most ***
Hey :) i swapped to SGs today with your gem setup. do i run 4x sg right? now i run with 4sg my ag and st. removed zombies.
plus i noticed now with sg while i map. my claw barely summon wolfes xD the sg kills so fast. maybe i can swap to advance instead? plz take a look on my char Thamirtha if u have time.
Guys if I'm using TV and FG vararion of build should I use 3 flame golems or 2 flame golems and stone one?
Depends on what you are doing. Lab, where life regen is really useful? 1 stone. Maps where you are worried about surviving? Also stone. Anything where you just want to push up your clear speed? pure flame golems.
For me, for anything I'm in clear mode (rather than stay alive mode)... I use 3 flame golems based on just anima jewel and a claywhaper.
One of the things I do differently is that the flame golems are in the following helmet:
A couple things to note:
* non burning death is not likely to count as mine and result in a wolf
* saving 3 jewels means I fill them with jewels that raise the damage of all my minions if I have used a minion skill recently... I have!
* Immolate is a big DPS increase and the spectres set things as burning up. A big benefit for the Wickerman
* Flesh Offering is a huge DPS increase. Any time I can be safe a bit, I switch to flesh offering.
* This helmet shares +hp with other minions and creates flame golems with far more hp ant a +2 level helmet... don't know why, but I have one of each.
* The immediate criticism will be that I have to use shield rush that depends on movement speed. My boots are 15 + 10 if I haven't been hit recently, plus an AG that grants 10 from his boots, plus 5 from my belt. I used to have 5 before I moved my extra curse from unique ring to a nice cursed amulet that I can't master enchant :( Flesh offering can also improve movement speed and there are times when it counts such as right before when you activate an abyss.
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I have debated with a guild mate if I count as Batman or Ironman, but either way... I have spent all my money building up multiple equipment outfits for this character.
* A farm set with 3 fire golems.
* An uber farm mode with 1800 hp per second regen
* Starting to work on a shaper killing set, problem is... I've never killed shaper yet :)
Trying to perfect each one before I post it to this thread.
Last edited by ImAncient#1500 on Jan 3, 2018, 10:03:45 AM
done my uber this league today as well, AG really shine here, end trio last phase and atziri split phase really fast that i not only dont die, i dont even get hit, but I would recommend unslot it when she's at 20%(just like you), she hike up her cast speed pretty fast there, and many storm call overlay each other, almost one shot my AG with 22K+ hp, unbelievable.
FG is definitely not useful with TV in shaper&uber atziri, but mapping T16 is not a problem with them, thing is, if you are farming those big two, just bring a skull head, 4TV beat anything, your SG will feel underwhelm as well.
Quickly run another Uber with 4 SG and 3 FG, 9 abyss jewel with speed mod, not bad, but did die 3 times, kind of messy cause SG really dont know how to stick with the 4 breast queen, i run they run, what the hell
Here's what I noticed - after I made my post, I went back to 2/2 TV/SG and for t15 and guardians, I am liking it a lot more than FG now. The "secret" ingredient is 2x Unending Hunger. FG just cannot compete with 2x unending hunger for your SG's for map clearing. I don't know why I ignored these jewels before, but whatever power that FG's had for t10-t14 clearing, they do not match what SG's can do for t15+. I'm literally whirling blades non stop (other than bone offering cast) and my SG's are blinking around and instantly dropping packs. FG's could not do this in t15-t16 with beefy mods like minion life and resistances, etc. I had to stop a lot more often.
As for Atziri and Skullhead, I will definitely have to try it. Although I would lose some substantial DPS because I am basically using a 7link with
But I did gain a 4th spectre again (went back to Vis Mortis over Belly when I ran FG's) so it actually wouldn't be too much of a loss in damage.
well SG is in no doubt THE best clearing spectre, so no argument there, FG is more for the ability running 4TV while mapping comfortable,but not for speed clearing, and they are actually more powerful with SG since the jewel sync well.
as for the skull head, I mean it for 4TV and AG safety, my TV is always in vis, and FG in a +2lv minion damage helmet, so it make sense when i just took it off without needing change for anything, so not sure whether you can do it with 2+2.
Nah, I meant I would try 4 tv’s in a skull head next time.
Also, I agree with you on fg effectiveness. I found them very useful when I ran them in red maps and lower. Only problem is like I mentioned, why invest in something (with extra points and likely sacrifice defenses in skill tree) to get something that has very bad uptime and damage in the very late game content.
This is at least the conclusion that I came to. And again, other people’s results may vary.
