PoEconomics: Belton's Market Manifesto (WIP)

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BambulaGTS wrote:

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we cant answer because of censorship but..R--M--... you figure out the last letter.

Not an answer.

To buy money someone needs to sell them to you.

So where that guy get the money. And if there are such places why not everybody just pump oil 24/7 instead of doing everything else.

There are lots of league mechanics that drop raw currency. In 3.22 TotA and Sanctum both were raining chaos and divines. I would assume this is the answer you were looking for?

There's also altar farming. Red altars drop chaos orbs abundantly, and lucky individuals will get divines from Blue altars. This is also just straight raw currency drops.

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There are lots of league mechanics that drop raw currency. In 3.22 TotA and Sanctum both were raining chaos and divines. I would assume this is the answer you were looking for?

There's also altar farming. Red altars drop chaos orbs abundantly, and lucky individuals will get divines from Blue altars. This is also just straight raw currency drops.

Nope.

Not interested in chaos orbs. There is no recipe/way to transform chaos orbs to divine orbs (or exalted orbs in the past). So it is non factor.

This league TotA and Sanctum both were raining divines, as a result mageblood price is 320 divines, not 220 divines.

Does not explain who bought 220 divines magebloods all way along. Where this guys every time get their 220 divines there and mirror here etc.

I would understand if mr economist say, for example, 1 divine dropped here and there and the 220 divine guys just traded them one by one and accumulated in a big chunk. For me sounds unreliable.

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

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BambulaGTS wrote:

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we cant answer because of censorship but..R--M--... you figure out the last letter.

Not an answer.

To buy money someone needs to sell them to you.

So where that guy get the money. And if there are such places why not everybody just pump oil 24/7 instead of doing everything else.

what answer do you want?

there are mirrors and mageblood belts etc on trade after day 2 of a fresh league...who puts them there, do ppl farm it or?? you figure it out...

People who drop it maybe?! WTF.

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People who drop it maybe?! WTF.

To drop something you need to have it. Basicly you saying people who drop it get it from devs. Cause there is no other way, remember, everyone started from 0.

I believe devs do not print divines and trade them to particular people. This people still need to get divines to drop them.

And I'm asking: where they get divines to drop them lately, and if there is such place / activity why everybody is not rich.

Imagine you want to drill oil and sell it in RL. Places on Earth where you can drill oil are limited. Oil deposits are limited. You need money to survey and buy equipment, you need permits from countries. Oil itself is not the same, some cost more. Their are your competitors.

In PoE you basicly can drill oil where you want, with no cost other than time. No competition, no initial capital, nothing.

So I'm really asking @mr economist why not everybody rich?

a) lazy and stupid.
b) do not know where to drill oil, but if knew would be rich.
c) no matter what you do it is time. Time is money.

If it is b) why everybody doing different content, it is not rational. If, for example, expedition prints X2 amount of divines and altars print X/10 amount of divines, everybody, probably do expedition. Cause if you do expediotion you will only suffer inflation as all your competitors, and if you do altars you will suffer inflation + reduced efficiency.

Just wanna know how exactly it works.

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BambulaGTS wrote:

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People who drop it maybe?! WTF.

To drop something you need to have it. Basicly you saying people who drop it get it from devs. Cause there is no other way, remember, everyone started from 0.

I believe devs do not print divines and trade them to particular people. This people still need to get divines to drop them.

And I'm asking: where they get divines to drop them lately, and if there is such place / activity why everybody is not rich.

Imagine you want to drill oil and sell it in RL. Places on Earth where you can drill oil are limited. Oil deposits are limited. You need money to survey and buy equipment, you need permits from countries. Oil itself is not the same, some cost more. Their are your competitors.

In PoE you basicly can drill oil where you want, with no cost other than time. No competition, no initial capital, nothing.

So I'm really asking @mr economist why not everybody rich?

a) lazy and stupid.
b) do not know where to drill oil, but if knew would be rich.
c) no matter what you do it is time. Time is money.

If it is b) why everybody doing different content, it is not rational. If, for example, expedition prints X2 amount of divines and altars print X/10 amount of divines, everybody, probably do expedition. Cause if you do expediotion you will only suffer inflation as all your competitors, and if you do altars you will suffer inflation + reduced efficiency.

Just wanna know how exactly it works.

I honestly don´t get your point anymore.

Everybody starts from 0, correct. But you can literally blast through the campaign and white maps in something like 8 hours on 4-links which u grab during your campaign. Heist is one of the mechanics that frequently gives 5-links very early in the league too. There are certain divination cards that can be target farmed in specific areas or maps that give u 6-links. U can start to equip those items, buy 1-2 very frequent uniques from other players that just dropped them and boom, farm t16-maps. And then altars will drop u plenty of currency.

Like, what do you mean "to drop it you need to have it". That is such nonsense.

Early in the league chaos orbs enable a lot of item upgrades, so when people drop divines they might be selling them already as early as day 1. People that know HOW to progress use different methods, like chaos recipe, red altars or just plain speed to buy those divines.
There is not a single specified place to drop divines, but when on leaguestart literally 250k players storm the servers and just 10% of those drop one divine in the first 3 days, then this means that 25.000 divine orbs enter the market on the first weekend. Why do you need devs for that?

And in regards to your question why not everybody is rich: Because there is a HUGE difference between people who know how to generate currency and people who dont. For example, I can buy certain items in a leaguestart for 15c, keep them for a week and resell them for 1 divine per item, making literally 1000% profit with time. People who dont know that buy expensive stuff early that depreciates in value, so they are respectively losing value.

I don´t know why u would always compare this to oil, but just compare it to money in general.

You go work = You farm
You earn your salary = your loot
You take your salary to the bank = you put it in your stash

Since a lot people farm currency and amass some sort of digital wealth in PoE, your money is comparatively worth less in time. Just like normal inflation. Putting it into your stash basically lowers its value.

But if you put it into other items, lets call them assets, they gain value, so you can profit from selling those later. Why do people sell things at a certain point and not wait? Because they need currency fast, for example to buy a house (or in PoE terms a 6-link chest piece or a good timeless jewel or whatever).

I honestly do not understand whats so difficult about it.

a) lazy and stupid. Lets call it inefficient and inexperienced rather.
b) do not know where to drill oil, but if knew would be rich. Kind of. Knowing different farming methods aka where to drill is one point, having the right tools (aka the right build and sextants and setups) is the other part of the equation, but also it takes effort to set things like this up.
c) no matter what you do it is time. Time is money. yes

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to buy those divines

Buy from who?

Everybody started with 0 divines.

Bla bla 4 link, 6 link all is fine, chaos orbs, trash currency, trash uniques.

To trade all this for divines you need other guy have divines.

And if you are so savvy and only have 6L and uniques where other guy in that time already got his divines to trade with you?

If he already has divines and you only have this, may be f it all (4L 6L maps) need just do what that guy does.

And if he does what you do WHERE has he got his divines. Why u have 4L, 6L uniques and he got divines.

Chaos orbs? How it is connected. You can't trasfer chaos orbs to divine orbs without trading and trading requires other party already have divines.

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BambulaGTS wrote:

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to buy those divines

Buy from who? From people who dropped them. Once again, you behave like people on leaguestart have 300 divine. This is nonsense. They have like 2, maybe 3 - which is mostly due to high Quant on groups.

Everybody started with 0 divines.

Bla bla 4 link, 6 link all is fine, chaos orbs, trash currency, trash uniques.

To trade all this for divines you need other guy have divines. Again, people have single divines. You buy them, boom, you become the one with 10 div.

And if you are so savvy and only have 6L and uniques where other guy in that time already got his divines to trade with you? because maybe he plays the market, flipping div cards, turning chaos into divines early or any other of tons of easy currency-making things?

If he already has divines and you only have this, may be f it all (4L 6L maps) need just do what that guy does. People frequently stopped at level 50 to farm heist in the past. That means they get more currency earlier but limit their progress. There are countless different strategies what to do in a leaguestart scenario and all depends on what you actually wanna do later.


Chaos orbs? How it is connected. You can't trasfer chaos orbs to divine orbs without trading and trading requires other party already have divines.Once again - if you have 6.000 chaos orbs, u don´t need to buy divines from ONE PERSON, you can simply buy from 600 people and have 600 divines. Like, are you honestly not able to understand that people drop divines as early as campaign?

At least the market isn't as crazy as in standard... the prices there are jacked on certain items :S

After reading the topic I came to conclusion the trade system in the game needs to be fixed or even completely removed. The reason why Chris doesn't want to make trade easier is literally described clearly in this thread.

Ppl playing the market instead of playing the game.