Lightning Golem Crescendo ♫ All Content / HC Focused / Not Casual-Friendly

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moby010 wrote:

why do you wear aura Wrath? what's the point of it if the buffs do not apply to golems without Generosity. or I do not know what it is

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moby010 wrote:

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moby010 wrote:

why do you wear aura Wrath? what's the point of it if the buffs do not apply to golems without Generosity. or I do not know what it is

Auras apply to allies. Minions count as allies.

That said, Wrath is kinda... unnecessary. Drop it if you want more EHP or want to run something else, like Purity of something.

Thx for this build but i have some question.

should i use Golems have 15% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed on old primodial harmony

or change to Golems have (30-45)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed?

how's different?

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MyExilez wrote:

should i use Golems have 15% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed on old primodial harmony

or change to Golems have (30-45)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed?

30-45% is the updated version. With its lower numbers, the old version is bad now, since GGG "fixed" the cooldown bug. So of course you want to get the new ones. But the question is how you should go about getting them.

This is actually kind of hard to answer if you're playing Standard, because you have to think about the price of Divines.

Option #1
If you can get a decent Harmony with the updated numbers for less than a Divine Orb (right now about 20-30c).

Option #2
If decent Harmonies cost more than a Divine (very likely on Standard), then you should just buy the orbs and update your existing jewels.

Option #3
Play the new league, take advantage of the fresh economy, and get Harmonies much cheaper while also experiencing new content.

I recommend #3 :)

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Build Update

New 3.3 Uber Elder video
+ kill time: ~2m40s

Not too different from the previous 3.2 video. Still lots of room for improvement. For now though, I think some of the keys to doing it deathless are:

① a fast movement skill (preferably one that goes over terrain/statues)
② Purity of Ice
③ kill the squid before they make a mess on the floor
④ constant circling/warping
⑤ keep both targets within sight as much as possible
⑥ be ready for the homing tentacles with Immortal Call(s), Vaal Disc, and/or quicksilver+basalt flasks

Basically, just listen to this guy.

Also thinking about swapping one curse for Warlord's Mark to get Endurance charges from the adds, since curse effectiveness kills a lot of the debuff value anyway. Maybe even Leap Slam+Faster Attacks+Endurance Charge on Stun? lol...

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tomatopotato wrote:

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MyExilez wrote:

should i use Golems have 15% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed on old primodial harmony

or change to Golems have (30-45)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed?

30-45% is the updated version. With its lower numbers, the old version is bad now, since GGG "fixed" the cooldown bug. So of course you want to get the new ones. But the question is how you should go about getting them.

This is actually kind of hard to answer if you're playing Standard, because you have to think about the price of Divines.

Option #1
If you can get a decent Harmony with the updated numbers for less than a Divine Orb (right now about 20-30c).

Option #2
If decent Harmonies cost more than a Divine (very likely on Standard), then you should just buy the orbs and update your existing jewels.

Option #3
Play the new league, take advantage of the fresh economy, and get Harmonies much cheaper while also experiencing new content.

I recommend #3 :)

---

Build Update

New 3.3 Uber Elder video
+ kill time: ~2m40s

Not too different from the previous 3.2 video. Still lots of room for improvement. For now though, I think some of the keys to doing it deathless are:

① a fast movement skill (preferably one that goes over terrain/statues)
② Purity of Ice
③ kill the squid before they make a mess on the floor
④ constant circling/warping
⑤ keep both targets within sight as much as possible
⑥ be ready for the homing tentacles with Immortal Call(s), Vaal Disc, and/or quicksilver+basalt flasks

Basically, just listen to this guy.

Also thinking about swapping one curse for Warlord's Mark to get Endurance charges from the adds, since curse effectiveness kills a lot of the debuff value anyway. Maybe even Leap Slam+Faster Attacks+Endurance Charge on Stun? lol...

Thank you very much

I looked over your google sheet for flame golem and I see the calculation is about 10 harmonies for optimal FG + Echo magma ball spam.

For the lightning golems, do you have any calculations that takes into account harmonies, spell echo and increased duration (which also takes into account golem set up)?

I'm not very familiar with LGs, but I assume Harmonies allow them to cast Orb of Sparks faster, so there ends up being many orbs on the ground.

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kayella wrote:

I looked over your google sheet for flame golem and I see the calculation is about 10 harmonies for optimal FG + Echo magma ball spam.

For the lightning golems, do you have any calculations that takes into account harmonies, spell echo and increased duration (which also takes into account golem set up)?

I'm not very familiar with LGs, but I assume Harmonies allow them to cast Orb of Sparks faster, so there ends up being many orbs on the ground.

Yep, you're right. Harmonies allow them to cast more orbs in a shorter period of time. Hmm... Your question is probably 2 parts:



①　I haven't bothered calculating Lightning Golems in as exact a manner because it's not nearly as necessary.

For Magma Ball, there will always be that hard cooldown cap that limits output, even with disgusting amounts of cast speed. For Orb of Sparks, there's no such thing as a hard cap because the individual lightning strikes from the orbs are not bound by Harmony cooldown. They scale purely off cast speed as far as I can tell.



②　So your next question is probably, what is the ideal mix of pure cast speed vs. cooldown?

The answer gets kinda hairy since it depends on what you've already got equipped. Harmony also complicates things a bit since it's offers both cooldown and damage bonuses (essentially a mini-double dip). It basically comes down to what will be a proportionally larger increase based on your current state. For example, if you have:

+450% increased Golem skill cooldown (10x perfect Harmony)
+635% increased Golem damage (5.1.1 setup with +35% from Gravepact cluster)
+12% increased Minion cast speed (Gravepact cluster)

What should you do with your next jewel slot?

Another Harmony might give you:
+495% increased Golem skill cooldown (a relative increase of ~8%)
+695% increased Golem damage (a relative increase of ~8%)
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So an additional Harmony would bump your DPS by about ~17%.

An Eminence would give you:
+32% increased Minion cast speed (a relative increase of ~19%)
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Only one variable changes here, so your DPS increase is the same ~19%.

As you can see, there are situations where Eminence can provide more DPS. I suck at math by the way, so apologies in advance if I flub any of the calculations.



On a related note, I just want to stress that Increased Duration is only for endgame bosses. If the fight lasts less than 20 seconds, you're technically better off using Controlled Destruction for the single-target setup. With a softcore/offensive spec, this is quite possibly the case even against T16 Guardians.

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tomatopotato wrote:

Yep, you're right. Harmonies allow them to cast more orbs in a shorter period of time. Hmm... Your question is probably 2 parts:

①　They scale purely off cast speed as far as I can tell.

②　So your next question is probably, what is the ideal mix of pure cast speed vs. cooldown?

Another Harmony might give you:
~17%.

An Eminence would give you:
+32% increased Minion cast speed (a relative increase of ~19%)
==========
Only one variable changes here, so your DPS increase is the same ~19%.


As you can see, there are situations where Eminence can provide more DPS. I suck at math by the way, so apologies in advance if I flub any of the calculations.


On a related note, I just want to stress that Increased Duration is only for endgame bosses. If the fight lasts less than 20 seconds, you're technically better off using Controlled Destruction for the single-target setup. With a softcore/offensive spec, this is quite possibly the case even against T16 Guardians.

I'm a little confused about the +32% cast speed, as eminence says 20%. But yeah, I can see where you're going with these calculations. I'm probably even worse than you about the maths, so I'm just taking the lazy option and using 8 harmonies and 2 eminence.

With regards to config, I was referring to 5+1+1 vs 4+1+1+1. The numbers for FGs are pretty much the same (42 vs 41.6), so I was wondering if you felt LGs are similar or does one confige outweigh the other.

Since I don't play HC (autokey doesn't work on my PC for some reason, so I wouldn't be able to use a logout script...), I'm going with a skin of the loyal. So with a +1 skin, controlled destruction gives +45% more, whereas an empower 4 (+1), gives 4 levels to the LG. And I think it's been estimated at 10% more per level (I'm not sure about this at all). I quite like this config, as it gives me the ability to throw in Increased Duration for those longer fights.

Thanks for your build, too. I had never considered lightning golems because of GGG's emphasis on fire in 3.3, but they seem a lot smoother for bossing and synergise well with arc players.

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kayella wrote:

I'm a little confused about the +32% cast speed, as eminence says 20%. But yeah, I can see where you're going with these calculations. I'm probably even worse than you about the maths, so I'm just taking the lazy option and using 8 harmonies and 2 eminence.

Sorry, my wording sucked. The other 12% is from the Gravepact cluster (6% nodes x2). Stacking more Eminence than Harmony can actually be pretty fun for mapping sometimes. You'll get a lot more laser beams that way. I tend to prefer more subdued effects/fewer projectiles though.

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With regards to config, I was referring to 5+1+1 vs 4+1+1+1. The numbers for FGs are pretty much the same (42 vs 41.6), so I was wondering if you felt LGs are similar or does one confige outweigh the other.

Ah, yes, the ratios are generic, so you can apply them to any golem type.

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Since I don't play HC (autokey doesn't work on my PC for some reason, so I wouldn't be able to use a logout script...), I'm going with a skin of the loyal. So with a +1 skin, controlled destruction gives +45% more, whereas an empower 4 (+1), gives 4 levels to the LG. And I think it's been estimated at 10% more per level (I'm not sure about this at all). I quite like this config, as it gives me the ability to throw in Increased Duration for those longer fights.

I don't know what the actual numbers are per level, but POB tells me Empower 4 is worse than Lightning Pen, even in a +2 Skin. Since POB's based on datamining, it should be trustworthy here, especially considering there's nothing extra to calculate like cooldown.

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Thanks for your build, too. I had never considered lightning golems because of GGG's emphasis on fire in 3.3, but they seem a lot smoother for bossing and synergise well with arc players.

Glad it's working out for you ♫

I have a question: if i have Summon Flame Golem gem with 20% quality, will it have base golem damage increased by 20%, or will it work like a +20% increased minion damage node in tree?