Damage Over Time Changes - Part 1
"Double dipping allows an extremely fast rate of growth vs. the amount of multipliers available. Doubling the base damage makes the dot start higher, but grow absurdly slower. Broadly speaking, the entry level dots will be stronger by a bit, but after even a couple of multipliers are in the mix, it will be a large nerf in every case. |
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Can someone explain this to me in plain English? Paragraph 4 and 5, that I must be reading wrong, are saying that after the fix, general damage increases will effect ignite, but something like spell damage won't anymore.
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Double_dipping The wiki on double dipping, says currently general damage increases will effect ignite, but something like spell damage doesn't. I don't understand what mechanic is being changed. Could someone give me an example of pre/post double dip change? |
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" Spell damage never did affect the ignite directly (except on vortex). It did affect the base damage though, which wont transfer over to ignite anymore since ignite will use the pre-multiplier damage. Example: 100 base damage, 75% inc spell damage, 20% inc fire damage, 40% more spell damage, 30% more fire damage Currently today, it would be: 100 * 1.95 * 1.4 * 1.3 = 354.9 upfront fire damage. (1.95 is the total increased multiplier (spell damage plus fire damage), 1.4 is the spell damage standalone multiplier, 1.3 is the standalone fire multiplier). Base ignite damage is 354.9 * 0.2 = 71 dps Then, 71 * 1.2 * 1.3 = 110.76 dps ignite The spell damage didn't multiply the ignite directly but it increased the initial fire damage the ignite was based on. In the new system, it would be 100 fire damage base for the direct fire damage, and 100 * 0.4 = 40 base ignite dps. 100 * 1.95 * 1.4 * 1.3 = 354.9 upfront fire damage 40 * 1.2 * 1.3 = 62.4 ignite dps These numbers for ignite are very small, most of the time there are many more multipliers, which have a drastic effect on the ignite dps thanks to the way they scale quadratically currently. |
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I drew a simple graph to explain why doubling the base damage of dots is fine in contrast with removing double dipping.
Blue is the current system, red is the new system.  |
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" Glad to hear it. Burning damage always felt inconsequential on items previously, I'd like to see that change. Bring back race seasons.
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" I think someone with 39 achieves should know why lol o.O I assume You know the difference between damage on time and double dip right? So imagine melee build with bleeding factor, like using Disfavor. If You would build around Marauder, You'll get none nods which double dips close enough to be worthy of picking-up. But then take different char and make yourself 4 example LA chaos/poison. Welcome to doible dip party sick as fok right? So... they are changing this that way to keep this overall damage on time so normal+dipped, at apropriate power level not to nerf some builds to the ground. I hope Your vision got moar clear :) Peace Seeing is believing
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" Sweet. Thanks :) |
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With ignite having a maximum & minimum bracket for damage, Is that per ignite or global for all ignites if you were using Emberwake.
For example 1 ignites 10-100 damage total 10 ignites 10-100 damage total Or 1 ignites 10-100 damage total 10 ignites 100-1000 damage total Each ignite rolling its own damage seperatly |
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Right now we have a complicated system (e.g some modifiers double dip, others do not. Takes a bit of research to figure things out when you are new to the game).
If I understand these changes correctly, the complexity shoots up further. Now, modifiers will be even more selective, often in non-intuitive ways (e.g fire damage still double dips. But now, something like attack damage will do nothing for bleed base damage.) I do not understand this. Things like attack damage effecting the base were never an issue. The issue is solely with double dipping modifiers. I would have thought it would be smarter to just prevent double dipping stats from applying to the dot (e.g inc physical damage, inc fire damage), while still allowing dot modifiers to apply directly to the dot (e.g increased damage over time, increased physical damage over time etc). This game is always unnecessarily complicated. Last edited by KnyazSunny#2473 on Apr 29, 2017, 7:04:48 AM
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Do i get it Right?
Base damage 1000 Chaos damage. Modifiers to Chaos damage increase +100%. Now "double-dipping": Hit = 1000 + 100% = 2000 Chaos Damage. Poison = 8% of 2000 = 160 + 100% = 320 Poison Damage. One and same modifier was used twice! Will be: Hit = 1000 + 100% = 2000 Chaos Damage. Poison = 8% of 1000(base) = 80 + 100% = 160 Poison Damage. My main question: Will DoT skills NOW INHERIT ALL TAGS FROM USED SKILL? For example : Notably, stats modifying spell damage and attack damage do not apply to poison as poison is not a spell or attack It was used so there was no "double-dipping" for Spell skill. But in new POE if Poison calculated based on BASE damage and not resulting damage, so ALL TAGS from skill should be used when applied to Poison!? |
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