[R.I.P.] life Mjolner done right by Rico - Juggernaut version - R.I.P. thx to "balancing" policy

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DotsandDashes wrote:

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Akuq wrote:

What's the point of Blade Vortex? It doesn't do anything.

EDIT: I would also like to say that this build is awesome! I'm only level 82 at the moment but I just facetanked a tier 15 map boss. This is without RF because if I were to take a hit, having RF would prevent me from leeching fast enough to ensure I'm back to full health before I get chunked again.

I also have not gotten cooldown belts and 20/20 gems, so there's still a lot to improve on.

NOTE: It's actually possible to use the 3 purity aura with only enlighten 2, but you won't have enough mana to cast golems/leap slam. So for those who can't afford enlighten 3+, you can also get this enchant

Spoiler

With that enchant, you will have enough to cast golems,leap slam, etc.

what I did was buy a corrupted level 3 enlighten because htey are far far cheaper, mine was 50c. leaves me with like 31 mana remaining and I can leap slam/shield charge pretty much all I want.


also I too question the point of blade vortex. I've been using it but the entire time wondering why and thinking about what could replace it. I also set up the RF in my boots to try it out. the damage boost is very noticeable but I'm unsure if I want to extra risk. I can essentially stay full HP as long as Im fighting something but the time between packs I have to hit potions to counteract the degen.

I took this character from 75 with shit gear to 81 with pretty decent gear yesterday. my biggest needs now are 20/20 gems probably. Just gotta figure out what gems to prioritize get %quality on. I was lucky while leveling this character and an 18% cyclone dropped for me at some point so thats handled

RF with Juggernaut can be used safely when in combat aka vs Boss and it is needed only vs those Big Boys like Guardians/Elders really (and maybe Atziri to push her quickly into the next phase). To switch it off before it worns you out a flask with remove burning must be used.

If u want perma RF up read about Witch/Elementalist version that I have posted recently in this thread.

Regarding BV - that was anserwed liek dosens of times but here we go again... take a look for example here:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1846362/page/145#p15376587

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RicoKGB wrote:

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ExiledOdyssey wrote:

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BundesHeinz wrote:

Not sure because i've not done the math myself but don't we need 16%+ CDR on Belt?

yeh but I'm poor

Working a very simplified explanation and of course, I'm using PoB to calculate discharge time per cdr so technically speaking there's some rounding which could distort the numbers ever so slightly

15% CDR = 0.22s per Discharge

therefore, with 15% every second im getting 4 whole discharges off (0.88s) with 0.12s to spare meaning that every 2 seconds ill have "saved 0.24s" which is another discharge leading me to have 9 discharges every 2 seconds. furthermore of those 0.24s im saving 0.02s meaning that every 22 seconds (since our period of time is now 2 seconds since I save 0.02s every 2 seconds) ill add another discharge so the math works out to

4 Discharges per second (Base)
1 Discharge every 2 seconds (Additional)
1 Discharge every 22 seconds (Additional)

16-20% CDR = 0.21s per Discharge

with this case im getting 4 discharges off (0.84s) with 0.16s to spare meaning that every 2 seconds ill save 0.32s which is another discharge and of those 0.32s an additional 0.11s is remaining, therefore, every 4 seconds ill save another 0.22 seconds meaning another discharge so

4 Discharge per seconds (Base)
1 Discharge every 2 seconds (Additional)
1 Discharge every 4 seconds (Additional)

Basically, the difference comes from the 1 extra Discharge per 22 seconds or 1 extra Discharge per 4 seconds

Also if I made some massive logical error or math error please inform me because it makes sense in my head but to be fair I'm coming off of 8 hours of calculus work so I may or may not be a little brain dead

Its not like that. You must factor in linear hit behaviour from cyclone itself. Here's a table that (I hope) will clarify this:



Note: Right click open in new tab to enlarge.

Note2: If we factor in accuracy and player errors (or Boss moving away) we do actually lower number of Discharges on average than table shows. And this is exactly what I was observing during my DPS checks with various Mjolner characters vs T16 Minotaur.

Note3: Regarding actual DPS - PoB shows Shaper DPU (or damage per use, or dmg per single Discharge) calculating it with maximum number of charges active. This rarely happens as charge numbers tends to jump around. In fact by doing so many DPS checks vs various end-game bosses, T16 Mino included I found an estimated numnber of average number of charges each Discharge. This number is 67% of max charges for every class that uses Inyas boots, and its 77% for Juggernaut that uses Inyas boots and Unflinching Ascendancy Keystone.

So to calculate REAL Shaper DPS of each mjolner build you must take average number of Discharges per sec from table above and factor in "average number of charges" modificator that I mentioned above. For example:

Maxed Jugg with RF up has around 130k DPU in PoB. With 18% CDR belt and 4.6 cyclone aps he is doing 130k * 4.7 = 611k theoretical maximum peak DPS. Now if we factor in that average charges mod we have: 611 * 0.77 = 427k average Shaper DPS.

But its not done yet as theres accuracy of 90% and player error factor right? Lets say player error factor is small and its only 10%, this means we have: 427k * 0.9 (90% chance to hit from accuracy) * 0.9 (10% of player's error factor) = 345k REAL sustainable Shaper DPS. This means T16 Minotaur will be killed in 12470k HP / 345k DPS = 36 secounds. And this number was verified by in-game testing.

If u see 120k PoB Discharge DPU on Witch with the same CDR, APS and accuracy for example we're talking: 120k * 4.7 * 0.67 (Just Inyas boots for charges generation) * 0.9 (accuracy) * 0.9 (error factor) = 306 real Shaper DPS.

Ohh, shoot I totally forgot about accuracy and cyclone hit intervals and attack speed. On another note, whats your opinion on this. In terms of actual discharge dps of around 77%, how effective do you think the BV set up is, or rather how much does it contribute to this number. As of now, i've opted to drop BV in place of enfeeble for survivability. However, seeing as BV generates power charges thus endurance charges as well. I'm starting to doubt my assumptions about enfeeble being the better survivability tool as more endurance charges = more life gain. In either case, both of these would be in a bossing context and to my previous experience with BV setups, you only have 1-4 up at any given time. Therefore I'm still unsure as to which route I should take as such, if possible could I get some weigh in on this topic thanks.

I think that vs Shaper/Guardians/Elder/Elder Guardians bv setup is more important as you have 80% penalty for curse effect vs those. So your enfeeble dont apply 30% less dmg modifier but rather 30% * 0.2 = 6% less dmg modifier for those guys.

Curse effectiveness penalty vs regular map boss is 60% or 0.4 multiplier for curse effect thou. However it is not needed vs regular map boss as build rips trough them as hot knife trough butter anyway.

With lvl 1 cwdt and lvl 8 bv I have 7 stacks active vs Guardian. Those estimated % regarding average number of charges each discharge were taken with bv setup included.

I did some math behind this as well and it turned out that bv setup grants you at least one power charge / one endurance charge every second discharge with a chance for max charges on both. This was estimated because we know how often bv "ticks" with x number of stacks active. With 7 stacks its 352 ms hit interval, enough to feed every second discharge.

If we want we can fool around with this further to see wheres that 77% estimate coming from. Lets take a closer look at charge generation each "turn" or each cyclone cycle ;)

We allready agreed that BV grants at least +1 charge every second discharge so we can say it grants 0.5 charge per Discharge on average. Correct? Not exactly. As theres crit chance included as well. Romiras grants power charge on non-critical hit. BV with our average number of Power Charges active has around 30% spell crit chance so its 0.5 * 0.7 (chance for non-critical hit) or 0.35 Power charge generated each Discharge by a BV hit.

Cyclone initial hit grants +1 and as Romiras grants charges only once per skill cast second cyclone hit grants 0 power charges. Correct? Not exactly as theres melee critical strike chance involved... With our average number of power charges cyclone avg melee crit chance is about 20%, so we have 1 * 0.8 (chance for non critical strike) or 0.8 power charges generated per each cyclone cycle. Are you still following? ;) Now Discharge itself.

Each Discharge trigger grants another +1 but... theres spell crit chance again... which is around 40% for Discharge which means 0.6 Power Charge generated on avg per each Discharge hit.

So in total we have: 0.35 + 0.8 + 0.6 = 1.75 power charges generated for each "cycle" or "turn". And this is the number you can expect without Inyas boots and any additional skill/spell hits. This is why Inyas boots are soooo good.

So now Inyas steps in. Every power charge generation event listed above have now a 25% chance to grant max power charges insteead. What me must do now is take above events and multiply them by a 75% (chance for not max power charges) and create additional 3 events with 25% chance each for max power charges, so it should look like this:

0.75 * (0.35 + 0.8 + 0.6) + 0.25 * (5*0.35 + 5*0.8 + 5*0.6) = 3.5 Power Charges generated on average each "turn" with Inyas boots. They effectively double the power charge generation.

Now endurance charges are a bit easier because most of the time power charges = endurance charges because of Volls Devotion. However with jugg we have additional 25% for max endu charges instead. So lets simplify a bit this time and assume that avg number of endurance charges is equal to power charges + 0.25 * max number of endu charges. Lets assume our max endu number is 7 so we have:

3.5 + 0.25 * 7 = 5.25 avg number of Endurance charges each "turn" or each Discharge.

So together we have 3.5 PCs and 5.25 ECs on average each Discharge where our max is 5 + 7 = 12 charges in total. (3.5 + 5.25) / 12 = 0.729 or 73%. Very close to my estimated number of 77% right?

Now other classes have 3.5 PCs and 3.5 ECs on average each Discharge and 5 max on both, so (3.5 + 3.5 ) / 10 = 70%, very close to the estimated number of 68% mentioned earlier.

This is all of course estimates as many things are happening in game engine in that short time period which I called a "turn". However as I said by numerous observation, boss killing times, DPS checks, counts etc "in-game reality" seems to be very close to that.

Love this build. Did you try Scold's + 15% Cyclone AS?

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CrUsAdAx wrote:

Love this build. Did you try Scold's + 15% Cyclone AS?

Ya we used Scolds for a bit, the damage is great and the fact that in it procs more ECs its just for a cyclone build you feel like your running underwater without that extra movement speed, couple that with the free attack speed when your pushing 4.5 to 4.7 and the free chaos resist the Devotos just pulls ahead.

From a pure dmg standpoint though ya, an unenchanted Scolds is stronger then an enchanted Devotos.

This build does incredibly low boss damage for me. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.
Fights against red beasts and low tier bosses last for ages - like 1 to 3 minutes.
Wasteland boss overheal my damage, LOL.





This is my gear.

Discharge, elemental focus and controled destruction are 20/20.
Cyclone is unfortunately still 4 link - cyclone, faster attacks, fortify, blood magic.

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PerkyPsycho wrote:

This build does incredibly low boss damage for me. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.
Fights against red beasts and low tier bosses last for ages - like 1 to 3 minutes.
Wasteland boss overheal my damage, LOL.

This is my gear.

Discharge, elemental focus and controled destruction are 20/20.
Cyclone is unfortunately still 4 link - cyclone, faster attacks, fortify, blood magic.

First off you arent proc'ng elemental eliquibrium b/c you dont have added cold damage to attacks on your off ring, its ok though its a very common oversight. Craft that onto your ring or pick 1 up with it to start.

I have just another stupid question ... What do you do in uber lab if you hit a dark shrine which make you crit on every hit ... ? I just had to quit 4 lab today because I couldn t generat charges anymore.

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Ghortex wrote:

I have just another stupid question ... What do you do in uber lab if you hit a dark shrine which make you crit on every hit ... ? I just had to quit 4 lab today because I couldn t generat charges anymore.

You just need to right click the buff on every zone change to remove it.

I am having a real hard time leveling as witch now that I am level 55. The sunder build posted before she just dies real easy