Content Update 2.6.0 Balance Changes

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Do_odle wrote:

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stainer93 wrote:

About vaal discipline
Sure it mindlessly gives you like 3-5k es but removing the entire ES gain portion is a bad idea
Why not rework it into something like an "OH SHIT" button to save lives ?
Lower the base ES gain to like 50 and make it scale more with missing life/ES of yourself or party member (like at 20% remaining HP you gain 50 + <insert values here> Energy shield)
Just my 0.02.

Mindlessly.

Yeah well, an iron hat, mindlessly gives you 9 armor. I don't understand FRookhuts who Say Ish lyk this. Cik ma noods.

I dont really get what you are saying...
3-5k ES is actually pretty huge for my vaal righteous fire

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stainer93 wrote:

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Do_odle wrote:

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stainer93 wrote:

About vaal discipline
Sure it mindlessly gives you like 3-5k es but removing the entire ES gain portion is a bad idea
Why not rework it into something like an "OH SHIT" button to save lives ?
Lower the base ES gain to like 50 and make it scale more with missing life/ES of yourself or party member (like at 20% remaining HP you gain 50 + <insert values here> Energy shield)
Just my 0.02.

Mindlessly.

Yeah well, an iron hat, mindlessly gives you 9 armor. I don't understand FRookhuts who Say Ish lyk this. Cik ma noods.

I dont really get what you are saying...
3-5k ES is actually pretty huge for my vaal righteous fire

Okay, now you make more sense, when you say it's huge and not Mindless, you make more sense, you don't sound like an angry neckbeard salty about his pissbucket tipping over so you take it out on the feedback forums

Sure, it's alot, for vaal righteous fire, I would argue that vaal righteous fire is the problem. Vaal Discipline's ES nerf drastically effects more than just vaal RF, VAAL RF will be fine without it most likely.

I really enjoy playing my LL abberath build atm and the Vaal disc and the inevitable ES gutting in near future sadden me too
Back then i only play life based,recently trying out some ES based and enjoyed them alot
But since they've decided they gonna try and "balance" ES anyway why not give some good suggestions instead of calling them out for it.

Going through the notes in order:

Phys to cold conversion is nice, but later on there are notes about some skills/items getting their conversion stats lowered. Could we perhaps have a manifesto on what GGG thinks about the current state of conversion?

New weapon elemental cluster in Ranger? This is in addition to Forces of Nature then? Sure, that works.

Area between Shadow and Ranger getting more efficient: Hell yes! That's one of the biggest issues pathing through the area. Hopefully Revenge of the Hunted and Void Barrier will be turned into 4 point wheels?

Thick Skin connecting to outside: Another Hell yes!

Mana behind Mind Over Matter: Not a huge change, but it's welcome considering how MoM builds actually using mana right now instead of going EB MoM ZO are hard to come by.

Claw, staff, and sword passive buffs:
The main discrepency with claw nodes was their lack of crit compared to dagger nodes, so hopefully that's what some of those changes are.
In light of staves getting more base block on them, will GGG be leaving the staff block passives as-is? One suggestion I'd like along the lines of block is changing the Scion's block nodes to include staves so that she can do a little something different.
How bad were the sword nodes such that they needed buffing/consolidation? They seemed alright and in line with other weapons.

Vitality Void and Spirit Void wheel getting an extra connection will be very helpful.

Putting the sword crit further to the right makes it a bit more difficult for Inquisitors to take it, but hopefully improved pathing around the Ranger will help with that.

Yeah, Master Fletcher wasn't really used and given the improvements to the area between Ranger and Shadow I was wondering how the Avatar of the Hunt wheel would look. Seems good to me!

Shadow leech for all attack damage: Thank you thank you thank you!

Combining Arcing Blows with Crackling Speed: Arcing was for attack builds while Crackling was more for casters. I'm curious on how those are being combined since it seems an odd choice.

Master of Force and Ash, Frost, and Storm giving lowered reflect: Hell yes! This change actually makes them an interesting choice since before they were way too inefficient to take, but now that damage inefficiency (assuming the values will stay the same) also comes with lowered reflect and thus more survival.

Conversion: Converting between elements is a bit too easy in some cases, I agree. Vortex Pyre in particular is quite powerful for relatively little investment. I assume we'll only be seeing something like 50% at most on uniques then? If that's how Pyre goes then requiring the Cold to Fire support gem on top of the ring is a more interesting investment. More phys to elemental is welcome, though I'm curious on why 60% keeps getting used when so many things are 50% or 25%. Can't we just allow the simplicity of only 25% and 50% conversions make for more depth?
Wild Strike doing full conversion will go a long way to making it more playable.

Unique item rebalance: I'm interested to see which items you guys thought needed work. Hopefully some of them allow for new gameplay styles or otherwise make things more interesting.

One-handed weapons:
Dagger nerfs are welcome, thank you.
Low level LGoH claws is a nice change. However, one of the things I'm wondering about is whether there will ever be all attack type leech on certain claws instead of just physical, or if there will be a way to convert the claw LGoH into ES on hit. Will you guys also be looking at some discrepancies in the late game claws? Currently the Terror Claw's damage is poor compared to the rest of the claws, and the LGoH on the Throat Stabber is 30% less than the otherwise equivalent Eye Gouger.
The LGoH on the Maraketh claws was a bit too low, agreed. It'll be nice to see them buffed.
Maraketh thrusting swords getting increased bleed chance is nice, though that doesn't make up for the current state bleeds are in. Hopefully some of the rebalanced unique items will let bleeds have an interesting role? And yeah, the crit multi on normal thrusting swords did seem a bit high.
One-handed maces getting stun threshold is great and hopefully we'll see more of them being used.
Staves going from 12% or 18% block to 18% or 20% is nice, though the difference between the two new values seems pretty underwhelming. If you want us to care about the block chance on them why not have 15% and 20%? Or 18% and 22%?
Flat accuracy on normal swords will be great for the mentioned reason of certain builds not getting much Dex for the accuracy.

Area of Effect changes:
Yeah, the AoE of some skills was just getting silly and making a lot of content not mean much. Before the change goes into full effect though, could you guys give specific examples of how things will work so that us players (and the wiki editors) know exactly what's going on?

Skill balance adjustments:
I was expecting Sunder to have this change eventually. It is rather powerful for a group of mobs where the secondary AoEs could overlap and effectively shotgun but its single target potential is weak.
Ice Crash does need a damage boost, yes. Will it still keep the three rings of descending damage though?
Blade Flurry getting nerfed was expected.
Vaal Haste's slight nerf should be expected.
Vaal Discipline's nerf... has me wondering if it's too much since merely not having ES recharge affected by damage might not be enough for a Vaal skill. Will its soul use also be getting adjusted?

Threshold jewels:
Glad to see GGG is trying to make these more interesting. Is lowering them to 40 an intent to make them usable in the Scion's jewel sockets? That's the main effect from looking at the passive tree and it's welcome.


Overall I'm really looking forward to the changes both in 2.6 and 3.0.

TLDR

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stainer93 wrote:

I really enjoy playing my LL abberath build atm and the Vaal disc and the inevitable ES gutting in near future sadden me too
Back then i only play life based,recently trying out some ES based and enjoyed them alot
But since they've decided they gonna try and "balance" ES anyway why not give some good suggestions instead of calling them out for it.

Because they already decided to go the wrong way with it.
ES doesn't life flasks, so the more they fuck that up, the more it becomes like it was, shit. I remember when ES was Poopo0. we made it out, tho. started from the bottom now we here... Before masters... ES had been garbage ever since the great ES butt facking of 97'.. back when CI gave 50% more ES and lowlife and auras were fanastic as crap.

What they need to do is buff life, but that's not gonna happen, because there's no straight forward way to do that without making ES lose all of it's relevancy and requiring another buff which inevitably creates the paradox that is powere CREPE, richbuttery, and syrupy, tis the delusion of baloons. So it wouldn't be easy to buff life in a creative manner, but I also think there's some room for slight life buffs.. just to make the minimum wage closer to 7k than 5k.. I think the introduction of the recent new content should allow for that much.

You're totally right though, suggesting alternatives to nerfing is better than what I'm doing, you're trying to soften the blow i'm trying to mock it out of existence, you're gonna succeed, I most likely will not, lol.

Dagger nerf ? so people that have paid 100s of ex for the legacy are now shit out of luck ?>

It's hard to believe some people are actually thanking GGG for what can only be described AT BEST, as trimming the fat.

At worst they're making their game shittier, but that's just my opinion. I'm just projectPT levels of ready to git the fuk out of here, now that AoE is getting Charan'd. . . again . . .

Diminishing returns spit in the proverbial cooch of my interests, which are having tons of fun going from exile to GOD! It just didn't need help gettin' wet, there was no problem; people who hate aoe have the option to be less significant on the market or not, why force it more on the rest of us? y me, man, don't take my radius away, bro. ;n ; I need it to enjoy your game.

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Some claw, staff and sword passives have received some special attention and should now be more powerful overall.
Leech effects in the Shadow area of the tree now leech from all attack damage, not just physical attack damage.
Master of Force, the physical cluster in the Scion area and Ash, Frost and Storm, the elemental cluster in the Scion area were improved.

About time.

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Wild Strike now converts 100% of physical damage to a random element.

Beautiful.

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We've also changed or rebalanced many weapon implicits. Here are some of the major ones:

Looking good, but you'll need more than that to make claws competitive.

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Area of Effect Changes

I couldn't understand anything.

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As many lower level skills don't have as high a base area, they will now receive an additional flat bonus to radius at certain levels of the gem. An example of this is Blight, which gains +1 area radius every 5 levels of the gem.

Ooh, that's nice.

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As another notable change, Melee Splash now gains significantly more increased area than it did increased radius as the gem levels, bringing it much closer to equivalent area skills.

Good-oh!

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Sunder now deals more damage with its direct hit, but less damage with its secondary area effects.

Niice.

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Ice Crash has had its damage increased.

Great!

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Blade Flurry has had its damage reduced.

Obvious.

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Vaal Haste now grants slightly lower values of attack, cast, and move speed.

Best vaal skill.

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Vaal Discipline no longer grants any bonus energy shield.

A-what?!

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There will be many more changes to skills coming in 3.0.0 as part of The Fall of Oriath's Beta.

I'm hopeful.

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Changes to Existing Threshold Jewels

M'kay.