[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

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mika2salo wrote:

Bosses have such huge curse reduction that active Elemental Weankess curse doesn't add much to the table.

Hmm... then why did you mention Animated Guardian in the first place as an offensive benefit? I responded that a genuine 20/20 Ele Weakness would give more benefit only because you brought up AG (11/0 EW) as adding something to the table. Using AG as Elementalist would have even less value, since ELE can't back AG up with Ascendancy buffs. And yes, I'm well aware of reduced curse effectiveness against bosses... ↓

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Temporal Chains at -75% is so noticeable that even bosses slow considerable with their huge reduction. AGs hinder and maim seems to affect bosses nearly full force, so you cant get that slow effect from anywhere else that AG gives.

TempChains vs. a white mob:
75% Slow effect with Enhance etc.
39% Slow effect flat
- massive difference, probably overkill

TempChains vs. boss with 80% reduced curse effect:
15% Slow effect with Enhance etc.
7.8% Slow effect flat
- difference is less than 8%

(Edit: brain fart; calculated 75% quality instead of 75% slow for some reason. fixed and point is still the same though.)

Re: Maim
Like Hinder, Maim only affects movement speed, not attack or cast speed, which makes it semi-useful against some Guardians and kinda useless against Shaper and Uber Atziri.

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Tested Jewels myself and checked Pob, and now I know why I never noticed cooldown on Golems. Seems that all their skill have about 6 second cooldown, but they use multiple seconds casting the skills. This almost last until 50% of cooldown and then about 5 Primordial Harmonies drops cooldown about 1/2. This allows Golems cast new orbs almost as soon as earlier cast is complete.

Golems also switch skills depending on range. During the few seconds cooldown with 5x Primordial harmonies situation has almost always changed to melee after few shots of Magma Orb. Golems will cycle Flame Wave and Immolate near the target, so cooldowns don't matter as casting each of the skills takes enough time for next one to be ready.

Yes, I'm aware they switch skills depending on range. The point is that Flame Golems will keep using their best skill, Magma Ball, and won't be forced to approach and split between worse skills (Flame Wave+Immolate) if you have low enough cooldown.

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Btw, have you actually tested the build yourself?

Are you referring to your specific version of Flame Golems? Then, no. If you're referring to Necro Golemancer in general, then yes. I've played NEC Golems and tested extensively with all 5 golem types on content that people actually aim for as a goal: T13/14/15/16 Guardians/Shaper. I don't test on Uber Atziri however, because I'm not rich enough to just blow exalts on fragments all the time, and I don't draw conclusions from a single test using offbeat stuff like Hall of Grandmasters, because (1)HOGM is possibly the most random map in the game and (2)very few people actually care about it unfortunately. Don't get me wrong. I love the Hall. It has tons and tons of POE history inside. But as a build testing map? Feels questionable to me.

I would reply to the rest of your post, but it looks like you removed it. Anyway, my point isn't to say who has a better build (really find those kinds of debates distasteful) or derail into minor details like AG/Maim or whatever. My whole point all along has been to disagree that Golementalist is a weak defensive build-type (at least in relation to Golemancer) and assert that both types are pretty equal in all phases of the game.

I have no horse in this race. I like both Ascendancies and think players can have equal success with both, but not by simply just switching Ascendancy points from one to the other.

with only 500-600c will this build be stronger than two hand AW build with slightly less budget? I really wanna give this one a try but budget is a bit tight. Probably will do the elementalist version with x2 Clayshaper and tabula since I can't afford the 6 link yet.

tomato - hindered = dmg. read mod on weapon. 60-80 % inc dmg. with hits. vs hindered targets

regarding item quantity /rarity build

i currently run bisco's, 2x ventor, goldwyrm and sadima's touch, (56% iiq + bisco) can farm t15 nearly as save as usual, resists could be better but i dont need them really to be maxed, but could with better ventors.

one could add a greed's embrace 6l for 15%q/50%r and still be able to farm t15 i think, but i wont test it.

its cheaper than full dmg/defense build cuz of chayula, but to get goldwyrm 3r1b i spent 1,5k chromies.

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tomatopotato wrote:

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mika2salo wrote:

Bosses have such huge curse reduction that active Elemental Weankess curse doesn't add much to the table.

Hmm... then why did you mention Animated Guardian in the first place as an offensive benefit? I responded that a genuine 20/20 Ele Weakness would give more benefit only because you brought up AG (11/0 EW) as adding something to the table. Using AG as Elementalist would have even less value, since ELE can't back AG up with Ascendancy buffs. And yes, I'm well aware of reduced curse effectiveness against bosses... ↓

"

Temporal Chains at -75% is so noticeable that even bosses slow considerable with their huge reduction. AGs hinder and maim seems to affect bosses nearly full force, so you cant get that slow effect from anywhere else that AG gives.

TempChains vs. a white mob:
75% Slow effect with Enhance etc.
39% Slow effect flat
- massive difference, probably overkill

TempChains vs. boss with 80% reduced curse effect:
15% Slow effect with Enhance etc.
7.8% Slow effect flat
- difference is less than 8%

(Edit: brain fart; calculated 75% quality instead of 75% slow for some reason. fixed and point is still the same though.)

Re: Maim
Like Hinder, Maim only affects movement speed, not attack or cast speed, which makes it semi-useful against some Guardians and kinda useless against Shaper and Uber Atziri.

"

Tested Jewels myself and checked Pob, and now I know why I never noticed cooldown on Golems. Seems that all their skill have about 6 second cooldown, but they use multiple seconds casting the skills. This almost last until 50% of cooldown and then about 5 Primordial Harmonies drops cooldown about 1/2. This allows Golems cast new orbs almost as soon as earlier cast is complete.

Golems also switch skills depending on range. During the few seconds cooldown with 5x Primordial harmonies situation has almost always changed to melee after few shots of Magma Orb. Golems will cycle Flame Wave and Immolate near the target, so cooldowns don't matter as casting each of the skills takes enough time for next one to be ready.

Yes, I'm aware they switch skills depending on range. The point is that Flame Golems will keep using their best skill, Magma Ball, and won't be forced to approach and split between worse skills (Flame Wave+Immolate) if you have low enough cooldown.

"

Btw, have you actually tested the build yourself?

Are you referring to your specific version of Flame Golems? Then, no. If you're referring to Necro Golemancer in general, then yes. I've played NEC Golems and tested extensively with all 5 golem types on content that people actually aim for as a goal: T13/14/15/16 Guardians/Shaper. I don't test on Uber Atziri however, because I'm not rich enough to just blow exalts on fragments all the time, and I don't draw conclusions from a single test using offbeat stuff like Hall of Grandmasters, because (1)HOGM is possibly the most random map in the game and (2)very few people actually care about it unfortunately. Don't get me wrong. I love the Hall. It has tons and tons of POE history inside. But as a build testing map? Feels questionable to me.

I would reply to the rest of your post, but it looks like you removed it. Anyway, my point isn't to say who has a better build (really find those kinds of debates distasteful) or derail into minor details like AG/Maim or whatever. My whole point all along has been to disagree that Golementalist is a weak defensive build-type (at least in relation to Golemancer) and assert that both types are pretty equal in all phases of the game.

I have no horse in this race. I like both Ascendancies and think players can have equal success with both, but not by simply just switching Ascendancy points from one to the other.

Hey :)

Slowing bosses makes them attack less as they use more time to move from spot a to spot b. Some bosses like Shaper that sit in one place dont care about it but about 95% of all bosses in this game actually move during the fight.


I'm starting to get interested in detailed practical testing of both classes as I now have more space to write different section for Elementalist in Guide. I have level 95 Elementalist (Singularity_totem) in standard that can use all of my current items, and loads of other GG items for Golemancer. Singularity_totem has been specced very close to my tree right now and I tested around 15 maps with it running Ele with main as Lightnig Golems and Flame Golems. I tested both with 5 + shield and 4+1+1 mixes and checked the DPS in Pob each time.

I removed test results so far as I had to do them in hurry with friends PC. So far I noticed that even with 8x Primordial Harmonies Golems always go to Flame Wave range, no matter how much cooldown they had.

I had problems breaking 100k DPS per Golem with any mix of Elementalists 4+1+1 mixes. My Golems right now do near 90K with Necro, and it seems that the increased damage (20% vs 60% from 4+1+1) gives very low DPS increase after you have enough increased damage already taken.

I'll be running more tests on weekend and reporting the results. If you can send me Pob tree and skills that can maintain DPS in longer boss fights, I will gladly test it then. I also appreciate if you can test my builds tree / items as they are very strong and differ from most Necromancers hugely. I can also show my build in action during weekend if you got time to join for maps.

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with only 500-600c will this build be stronger than two hand AW build with slightly less budget? I really wanna give this one a try but budget is a bit tight. Probably will do the elementalist version with x2 Clayshaper and tabula since I can't afford the 6 link yet

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Hi!

It depends on what you want to play. This build wont give you any adrenaline rush, as its more like sitting in pillow-fort while Golems do all the job. It can do any map mod with ease and Temp Chains makes all non boss enemies pretty much non-existing.

It uses only 1 button to place spell totem to guide Golems and to apply EE on bosses and some rares.

500-600c is good enough to do all maps till T15. Buy decent rares and cheap uniques that the build uses. Gem links don't need quality that much and only Golems and AGs level are important. I would aim for Anima Stone and Skin of the Loyal at first. Use :

Scorching Ray -> Cast while channeling -> Desecrate -> Bone / Flesh offering

instead of regular CWDT bone offering links to guide Golems without Primordial Might and keeping offering up.

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tomato - hindered = dmg. read mod on weapon. 60-80 % inc dmg. with hits. vs hindered targets

Hey :)

The Singularitys mod is local and only affects AG. Its true that it gets the bonus damage, but deals so little damage that even killing white enemies takes few hits from AG.

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regarding item quantity /rarity build

i currently run bisco's, 2x ventor, goldwyrm and sadima's touch, (56% iiq + bisco) can farm t15 nearly as save as usual, resists could be better but i dont need them really to be maxed, but could with better ventors.

one could add a greed's embrace 6l for 15%q/50%r and still be able to farm t15 i think, but i wont test it.

its cheaper than full dmg/defense build cuz of chayula, but to get goldwyrm 3r1b i spent 1,5k chromies.

Hello!

Temp Chains really keeps monsters at bay even when going heavily to MF. If you can farm t15, you will get propably most useful drops if not counting special boss drops.

You can use color fixing guide with voricis bench (I posted it few pages ago). It includes forcing base colors and then adding and removing sockets to get wanted color.

HEy guys, i got all the required gear and im lvl 86. People are talking about 80-100k DPS per Golem Where do they sea this? I imported into PoB and this is what comes out 8,2k DPS. Are my settings not correct?

How many exalts i need to spend to defeat Hall of Grandmaster? I need all those mantle+1, golem 21/20, empower+4? Or it can be done with "normal" gear?

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qbatronix wrote:

How many exalts i need to spend to defeat Hall of Grandmaster? I need all those mantle+1, golem 21/20, empower+4? Or it can be done with "normal" gear?

you dont need all of it at all :)

Just remember to dont use your AG in grand master cause he would die the first minute XD

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Melanholic7 wrote:

thx for solid answers)
just 2 remarks - on league there are no +1 boots except 1 pair with 2 sockets and cost like 4 exalts. so,recrafting it will make their cost very expensive :(
and about +2 skin of loyalty - i cant even imagine someone will have it on league and even if he will - how expensive it will be,according to normal chest price - ~350 chaos(10 ex). it will be priced like 80-100 ex and for sure this is just TOO expensive for 99,99% of players with this build ;(
maybe only on standart with unlimit amount of money, but on league - no variants.

Never say never buddy ;)
I d'love to link you my gear but i dont know how to do that XD

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*edit* Here is my gear i think am quite optimal and won't be able to find new items that fast \O/
If anyone got suggestion, i am aware of everything

hey found your guide and am curious about your use of empower in the main links of flame golem. i have my own golem build (as elementalist though) and using PoB I have found empower is, at best, 4k less damage than another damage gem and at worst 5-5.5k less. (these numbers assume a chest piece without +1)

i imported your character professor_naggi_maggara and found that your empower is 1k less damage than Controlled, and 2k less than Focus. this is taking into account the +1 from chestpiece vaal.

seeing as how you're necro, I assume you have to consider golem survivability. is the empower primarily used for golem health?

my characters PoB for 3.0 https://pastebin.com/DmYFnZHi
here is a quick link to your characters PoB for somebody who wants to look at it and compare gems https://pastebin.com/0niN1E33