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Lumweishaupt wrote:
"Primordial Harmony: Now grants your golems 30-45% increased cooldown recovery speed, to compensate for a bug that was fixed. Existing versions of this jewel can be updated with a Divine Orb."
from the patch notes. does this mean i should divine my jewels when the patch is out? this is a buff?
tl;dr; it's neither a buff or a nerf, it's just a bug fix and adjusting the value to have it the correct place.
Originally, the bonus are these:
"
Golem Skills have (20-30)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed
Golems have (10-15)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed
(16-20)% increased Golem Damage for each Type of Golem you have Summoned
Golems regenerate 2% of their Maximum Life per second
The second line is supposed to affect the golem, but the bug was that both first lines were stacking on the golem.
Now instead of this, we still have the first but only the second applies to the golems.
And it's stated "grants your golems X% increased recovery", not "grants your golem skills" (which clearly means "Summon XX Golem", not the "golem's skills" which would mean the skills of the golems).
@mika:
- what about swapping discipline to vaal discipline, since in 3.3 vaal will also have the non vaal version included ?
- same for vaal IC (i didn't understand in the patchnote if they made it undroppable actually... so maybe not add it if it's the case)
My version of golementalist: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1827487/page/276#p15615251 Last edited by Anakhon#4996 on May 30, 2018, 8:43:28 AM
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Posted byAnakhon#4996on May 30, 2018, 8:42:52 AM
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mika2salo wrote:
If Player gets the extra cooldown reduction, it will be nerf.
If Golems gets the extra cooldown reduction, it will be buff.
However it was posted earlier that only some setups had the bug. It's hard to say how many setups were ever affected it in the first place. If players get the cooldown reduction, it might still be that most of us wont even notice the "nerf" as we never had the bug in the first place.
It's neither a buff or a nerf in terms of actual gameplay with fresh 3.3 Harmony Jewels.
I believe all golem builds were affected by the bug, but GGG is downplaying it a bit by saying only "some". They're probably including non-golem builds that use golems only for the buff. Those builds, of course, would never notice it. In all the testing I did, the results showed a bugged firing rate every single time. Pretty sure Shiverwarp, the guy that discovered the bug, had the same results.
The bug gave golems extra cooldown. GGG is removing the bugged cooldown and making up for the loss by boosting legit cooldown to the same levels. End result: no nerf, no buff.
I think all golem players can breathe a sigh of relief. This could actually be considered an indirect buff, since it's much easier mathematically to hit 45% than it is to hit 30% and 15% consecutively (assuming evenly weighted odds for each percent). That means a relatively larger/cheaper supply of well-rolled Harmonies.
⚡ Lightning Golems:
/1902593
⛄ Ice Golems:
/1914382 Last edited by tomatopotato#6384 on May 30, 2018, 9:12:43 AM
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Posted bytomatopotato#6384on May 30, 2018, 8:51:37 AM
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"
Anakhon wrote:
"
Lumweishaupt wrote:
"Primordial Harmony: Now grants your golems 30-45% increased cooldown recovery speed, to compensate for a bug that was fixed. Existing versions of this jewel can be updated with a Divine Orb."
from the patch notes. does this mean i should divine my jewels when the patch is out? this is a buff?
tl;dr; it's neither a buff or a nerf, it's just a bug fix and adjusting the value to have it the correct place.
Originally, the bonus are these:
"
Golem Skills have (20-30)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed
Golems have (10-15)% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed
(16-20)% increased Golem Damage for each Type of Golem you have Summoned
Golems regenerate 2% of their Maximum Life per second
The second line is supposed to affect the golem, but the bug was that both first lines were stacking on the golem.
Now instead of this, we still have the first but only the second applies to the golems.
And it's stated "grants your golems X% increased recovery", not "grants your golem skills" (which clearly means "Summon XX Golem", not the "golem's skills" which would mean the skills of the golems).
@mika:
- what about swapping discipline to vaal discipline, since in 3.3 vaal will also have the non vaal version included ?
- same for vaal IC (i didn't understand in the patchnote if they made it undroppable actually... so maybe not add it if it's the case)
"
It's neither a buff or a nerf in terms of actual gameplay with fresh 3.3 Harmony Jewels.
I believe all golem builds were affected by the bug, but GGG is downplaying it a bit by saying only "some". They're probably including non-golem builds that use golems only for the buff. Those builds, of course, would never notice it. In all the testing I did, the results showed a bugged firing rate every single time. Pretty sure Shiverwarp, the guy that discovered the bug, had the same results.
The bug gave golems extra cooldown. GGG is removing the bugged cooldown and making up for the loss by boosting legit cooldown to the same levels. End result: no nerf, no buff.
I think all golem players can breathe a sigh of relief. This could actually be considered an indirect buff, since it's much easier mathematically to hit 45% than it is to hit 30% and 15% consecutively (assuming evenly weighted odds for each percent). That means a relatively larger/cheaper supply of well-rolled Harmonies.
Hi :)
I really, really hope that the 45% cooldown reduction is given to Golems. I thought that only the mid line was originally supposed to affect Golems, so the raise from 15%->45% seems almost too good to be true. However if it's true, I'm really happy for GGGs decision.
I also remember from your tests that Golems had extremely low downtime between charges. GGG might have really worded the statement to show lower impact than what was really happening.
If the boost really will affect only Golems, GGG has then (un)officially stated that they are happy with Golems as they are and instead of "nerfing"(fixing) the jewels they rather fix incorrect wording and boost the jewels to bugged values. This in best scenario means that Golems will be nerf protected for multiple leagues and that I will be buying some support packs from Tencent :P
Swapping for Vaal Discipline is really good idea. I have to first see it after the patch that it really works. I will update it into the guide after few days of testing if it works ;)
It will be interesting to see if CWDT can cast Vaal IC. It should able to cast its non-Vaal side but not Vaaled side. There will most likely be patches in few days after release if the CWDT->Vaal gems are bugged at launch. Worthy idea to check if it works. Maybe "Can no longer be obtained via corruption, Vaal side area, or divination card." means that it can now only be obtained from the new league content (temples)?
Btw, T14+ Elder spawn will be fixed so Uber Elder video should be coming soon :P
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
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Posted bymika2salo#7776on May 30, 2018, 11:21:38 AM
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mika2salo wrote:
Hey :)
Gz on nice runs! You have good kiting in both videos and EHP looks healthy. There are however some things that could be improved :
Necro run :
Your necro setup is showing pretty low damage for Golems. 3x Harmonies are barely enough to let Golems 6 sec cooldown to reach the limit to let them cast new orbs once their charges are empty. It's also far too low to give Golems reliable regen. By changing from :
- 1x Anima 3x Harmonies = 74k per Golems
- 1x Anima 10x Harmonies = 96k per Golems, However its would be tons more as Golems can now cast as fast as they can and they would be almost immortal with over 20% HP regen per sec
Elementalist run :
Not sure how many Harmonies you were using as there is no Pastebin, but taking Elementalist means stacking as many Harmonies as possible. Golems are your main damage dealers and probably only minions that can survive without actively casting Concocation or using defensive items with Necro Aegis to minions safe.
For Specters to survive you might want to equip :
- Kaltenhalt shield with Necro Aegis (Both bosses deal heavy cold and fire damage)
- Bone Offering (Block helps minions a lot)
Both runs
In both runs I don't think you were using Primordial Might. This seriously nerfs Golems damage as they were following you more than shooting at boss. I very highly recommend using Might at all times.
You didn't seem to use Bone Offering at all, so minions were left with 0% chance to block and Golems were uncapped with ele res outside of you aura using Necromancer. This means that minions were tanking with raw life, which runs low fast with no AGs 6% HP regen or stacking Harmonies to keep Golems alive.
Using more Harmonies and Might will most likely fix DPS & Golems dying & Golems not staying on target problems.
Lightning warp will most likely be slower than Shield Charge as build has almost no cast speed. ES regen is will be much easier with using Occultist. However the gear requirement is very high to deal enough DPS with occultist and no minion damage from Ascendancy.
Sorry that list has so many things to improve. I just really liked your setup and wanted to give you as much advice for improvement as possible.
Overall nice videos and good job at clearing Uber Elder with both variants, boss fight is very hard one ;)
Thanks for the feedback.
I recorded these runs in the weekend before league ended and had some problems buying more harmonies; I only had 5. In the next league, I'll aim to slot around 10. I think with enough regen, bone offering isn't needed, and instead we can use flesh offering for 29% cast speed.
Do you think going 4 fire + 1 stone and using The Scourge + whirling blade would be as effective as 4+1+1 and Clayshaper + shield charge?
"
mika2salo wrote:
Btw, T14+ Elder spawn will be fixed so Uber Elder video should be coming soon :P
Enjoy the fight! It's the only really challenging thing left in the game. Let me know what you think of shield charge after using in Uber fight ;)
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶 Last edited by kayella#0845 on May 30, 2018, 11:45:03 AM
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Posted bykayella#0845on May 30, 2018, 11:42:47 AM
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kayella wrote:
"
mika2salo wrote:
Hey :)
Gz on nice runs! You have good kiting in both videos and EHP looks healthy. There are however some things that could be improved :
Necro run :
Your necro setup is showing pretty low damage for Golems. 3x Harmonies are barely enough to let Golems 6 sec cooldown to reach the limit to let them cast new orbs once their charges are empty. It's also far too low to give Golems reliable regen. By changing from :
- 1x Anima 3x Harmonies = 74k per Golems
- 1x Anima 10x Harmonies = 96k per Golems, However its would be tons more as Golems can now cast as fast as they can and they would be almost immortal with over 20% HP regen per sec
Elementalist run :
Not sure how many Harmonies you were using as there is no Pastebin, but taking Elementalist means stacking as many Harmonies as possible. Golems are your main damage dealers and probably only minions that can survive without actively casting Concocation or using defensive items with Necro Aegis to minions safe.
For Specters to survive you might want to equip :
- Kaltenhalt shield with Necro Aegis (Both bosses deal heavy cold and fire damage)
- Bone Offering (Block helps minions a lot)
Both runs
In both runs I don't think you were using Primordial Might. This seriously nerfs Golems damage as they were following you more than shooting at boss. I very highly recommend using Might at all times.
You didn't seem to use Bone Offering at all, so minions were left with 0% chance to block and Golems were uncapped with ele res outside of you aura using Necromancer. This means that minions were tanking with raw life, which runs low fast with no AGs 6% HP regen or stacking Harmonies to keep Golems alive.
Using more Harmonies and Might will most likely fix DPS & Golems dying & Golems not staying on target problems.
Lightning warp will most likely be slower than Shield Charge as build has almost no cast speed. ES regen is will be much easier with using Occultist. However the gear requirement is very high to deal enough DPS with occultist and no minion damage from Ascendancy.
Sorry that list has so many things to improve. I just really liked your setup and wanted to give you as much advice for improvement as possible.
Overall nice videos and good job at clearing Uber Elder with both variants, boss fight is very hard one ;)
Thanks for the feedback.
I recorded these runs in the weekend before league ended and had some problems buying more harmonies; I only had 5. In the next league, I'll aim to slot around 10. I think with enough regen, bone offering isn't needed, and instead we can use flesh offering for 29% cast speed.
Do you think going 4 fire + 1 stone and using The Scourge + whirling blade would be as effective as 4+1+1 and Clayshaper + shield charge?
"
mika2salo wrote:
Btw, T14+ Elder spawn will be fixed so Uber Elder video should be coming soon :P
Enjoy the fight! It's the only really challenging thing left in the game. Let me know what you think of shield charge after using in Uber fight ;)
Hello :)
Yep, with enough Harmonies Golems can regen faster than bosses can harm them. 7-9 Harmonies lets them already tank already pretty much all bosses with capped elemental resistances. I have been using Flesh Offering myself as I'm more kiting player than blocking. TV Specters get really nice turn speed for their totems with added cast speed.
I think 4+1+1 will be stronger as Golems get crazy damage boost from Harmonies when using multiple Golems types. However with this much damage some can be compensated for quality of life. If you like Whirling Blades more than Shield Charge, Scourge is good choice. Damage will be somewhat lower but still enough to do all content with ease.
Thanks! Will be posting fight as soon as I can get it done next week. I'll keep Elder and guardians ready in high tier maps for the patch to hit the servers. Red tier elder already felt pretty easy so hoping for some challenge from Uber ;)
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
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Posted bymika2salo#7776on May 31, 2018, 11:48:52 AM
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suitable to use start at new league(incursion)?
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Posted byduabijitelur#2717on Jun 1, 2018, 7:02:58 AM
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duabijitelur wrote:
suitable to use start at new league(incursion)?
start with spectres as main dps, switch to golem later
My version of golementalist: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1827487/page/276#p15615251
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Posted byAnakhon#4996on Jun 1, 2018, 10:49:14 AM
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duabijitelur wrote:
suitable to use start at new league(incursion)?
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start with spectres as main dps, switch to golem later
Hello :)
Build is good starter for leagues or Golemancy in general. It's one of the oldest Golem builds and throughy tested improving little by little every league. Most of the improvements come directly from the players, so it has become more like community build.
Leveling section is written to be easy to understand while providing enough info to understand what is important at which part of leveling. Later at high levels it will be easy to customize build for own taste. Guide is much longer than average, but gives details about all gear, skills and mechanics.
Golem builds are not the cheapest as Anima Stone can cost multiple Exalts. However Specters are included in build in detail and can carry easily up to T15+ maps while leveling and saving currency for gear.
Build can do all map mods so there's little reason to reroll maps or avoid Vaaling them. All bosses are doable deathless, most with ease and some with practice. Even Hall of Grandmasters map is doable deathless if being careful.
I will be reading and answering all messages in thread, so if you get questions they are usually answered in 24h by me or by other awesome tread posters ;)
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on Jun 1, 2018, 11:08:02 AM
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Posted bymika2salo#7776on Jun 1, 2018, 11:01:41 AM
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duabijitelur wrote:
suitable to use start at new league(incursion)?
You can also start as a life-based build and transition into hybrid when you get to maps.
I would say this build is better than a life-based build as you have flexibility to change ascendancies (necro/ele/occy) and play around with a spectre or golem heavy build. This is because the life-based builds don't have enough jewel sockets to make golems awesome.
The main downside is the cost. Tne anima stone and Primordial might are not cheap, and you probably want to get a presence of chayula as a small life pool can be hard to deal if there's much chaos damage.
Flame Golem build as either Spectre-focus or Golem-focus can do all content deathless, including Uber Elder.
🔰🌀✨ Video guides on youtube! https://www.youtube.com/KayGaming ✨🌀🔰
🔶🔷🔶 Kay's Summoner build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3179145 🔶🔷🔶
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Posted bykayella#0845on Jun 1, 2018, 11:19:10 AM
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Since this is viable as Occultist, would this be viable as Guardian?
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Posted byRXXQ#1294on Jun 1, 2018, 1:51:51 PM
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