[3.14] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, ✔️All Bosses Down, ✔️Necro, ✔️Elementalist

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mika2salo wrote:

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6 flames will have the best dps
4+1+1 will have slightly less dps, but you are immune to status ailment

Hello :)

Yep, 6x Golems + 3x Specters has best damage. Shifting to multiple Golem types for elemental status immunities or dropping 1x Specter for Death's Doors and bleed immunity are all quality-of-life updates and cost some DPS.

how do you arrive at this conclusion?

going off my pob numbers here:
i'm running 4 flame + 1 ice + 1 stone and my shaper dps is at 87468 per flame golem (magma ball).
so 4 * 87468 = 349872.
if i ran 6x flame it'd be 53497 * 6 = 320982.

granted, i have some more jewel sockets (14), but even if i take out 4 jewels, the 4+1+1 still comes out on top. now i understand this build probably doesn't have the sockets for it because of the spectre setup, but i wanted to point out that 4+1+1 is actually just flat out better :D

Planning to run this for the flashback event.

Being messing around leveling with it a bit just running through act 1 so far. What would be the best setup to run while leveling?

To me dmg seems slightly low with zombies / raging fire spirit. Are skeletons worth running aswell or not?

Also I don't know too much about summoners. While leveling when you are able to use spectres can you only use 1 at a time? What gem / item would allow for more spectres? I'm just looking to see if there's any items to look out for while leveling in the flashback event

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Injuredviking wrote:

Hi Mika,

Just want to say thanks for the advice and replies. Really awesome build.

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thanks for reply Mika, its really help me a lot

Thanks for support ^^

I really enjoy seeing how builds improve with help.

Big thank also from me goes to "Anakhon" as he hes been very active with lots of helpful advices ;)

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will this build be a good league starter for the flashback league?

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as you need to start by using spectres, you can start with that build and switch to golem later.
Just keep in mind you won't be able to change ascendancy in the flashback event.

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Planning to run this for the flashback event.

Being messing around leveling with it a bit just running through act 1 so far. What would be the best setup to run while leveling?

To me dmg seems slightly low with zombies / raging fire spirit. Are skeletons worth running aswell or not?

Hey :)

Yep, build can run just fine as long as you can trade for cheap unique items. Specter setup is really cheap to run and can take you to T13+ maps easily. Switching to Golems later is easy when you get enough currency to buy Anima Stone.

Not being able to switch Ascendancy later makes leveling with Occultist but rougher as you cant just switch to it later, but many players have leveled with all Ascendancys already with no problems.

Damage really jumps after Specters are added in to the mix. You can use Zombies, Flame Totem, SRS, any self cast skill until you get to Specs and after that they will deal all damage for you before Golems.

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how do you arrive at this conclusion?

going off my pob numbers here:
i'm running 4 flame + 1 ice + 1 stone and my shaper dps is at 87468 per flame golem (magma ball).
so 4 * 87468 = 349872.
if i ran 6x flame it'd be 53497 * 6 = 320982.

granted, i have some more jewel sockets (14), but even if i take out 4 jewels, the 4+1+1 still comes out on top. now i understand this build probably doesn't have the sockets for it because of the spectre setup, but i wanted to point out that 4+1+1 is actually just flat out better :D

Hi :)

It's true that number of Harmonies makes 4+1+1 better at some point as Golems boost each other enough. With about 8x Harmonies 6x Golems deal about 10-20% more damage than 4+1+1 setup.

Tukohama Specters however deal lot more damage than the 20% extra you can gain with 14 jewels. Specters are broken good atm and Golems can't compete with fair damage boosts against that kind of difference. TVs are however really bad at clear-speed, so mixing both gives best of both worlds.

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mika2salo wrote:

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val0s wrote:

how do you arrive at this conclusion?

going off my pob numbers here:
i'm running 4 flame + 1 ice + 1 stone and my shaper dps is at 87468 per flame golem (magma ball).
so 4 * 87468 = 349872.
if i ran 6x flame it'd be 53497 * 6 = 320982.

granted, i have some more jewel sockets (14), but even if i take out 4 jewels, the 4+1+1 still comes out on top. now i understand this build probably doesn't have the sockets for it because of the spectre setup, but i wanted to point out that 4+1+1 is actually just flat out better :D

Hi :)

It's true that number of Harmonies makes 4+1+1 better at some point as Golems boost each other enough. With about 8x Harmonies 6x Golems deal about 10-20% more damage than 4+1+1 setup.

Tukohama Specters however deal lot more damage than the 20% extra you can gain with 14 jewels. Specters are broken good atm and Golems can't compete with fair damage boosts against that kind of difference. TVs are however really bad at clear-speed, so mixing both gives best of both worlds.

I think val0s is right.

4x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~2% more damage.

6x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~14% more damage.

8x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~23% more damage.

10x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~30% more damage.

14x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~41% more damage.

This is without counting sub-golem damage. I calculated the numbers using this: Google Sheets Harmony Damage Calculator

Edit:
fixed math.

Also, 4.1.1 @14xHarmony deals 107% more damage than 6.0 @6xHarmony. So Spectres (with 6.0 golems and 6 Harmony) essentially need to contribute more than half of overall DPS to catch up to 4.1.1 w/ 14 Harmony.

Flashback event is starting soon and I might not get an answer in time but i wanted to ask this anyways..


What ascendancies do you go for while leveling as Elementalist? I'm pretty sure I only saw mentioning ones for necromancer

I'm still not sure if I wanna go for Elementalist or Necromancer since you can't change on the flashback "league". I'm leaning towards Elementalist but I don't know :(

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tomatopotato wrote:

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mika2salo wrote:

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val0s wrote:

how do you arrive at this conclusion?

going off my pob numbers here:
i'm running 4 flame + 1 ice + 1 stone and my shaper dps is at 87468 per flame golem (magma ball).
so 4 * 87468 = 349872.
if i ran 6x flame it'd be 53497 * 6 = 320982.

granted, i have some more jewel sockets (14), but even if i take out 4 jewels, the 4+1+1 still comes out on top. now i understand this build probably doesn't have the sockets for it because of the spectre setup, but i wanted to point out that 4+1+1 is actually just flat out better :D

Hi :)

It's true that number of Harmonies makes 4+1+1 better at some point as Golems boost each other enough. With about 8x Harmonies 6x Golems deal about 10-20% more damage than 4+1+1 setup.

Tukohama Specters however deal lot more damage than the 20% extra you can gain with 14 jewels. Specters are broken good atm and Golems can't compete with fair damage boosts against that kind of difference. TVs are however really bad at clear-speed, so mixing both gives best of both worlds.

I think val0s is right.

4x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~2% more damage.

6x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~14% more damage.

8x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~23% more damage.

10x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~30% more damage.

14x Harmony
4.1.1 beats 6.0 by ~41% more damage.

This is without counting sub-golem damage. I calculated the numbers using this: Google Sheets Harmony Damage Calculator

Edit:
fixed math.

Also, 4.1.1 @14xHarmony deals 107% more damage than 6.0 @6xHarmony. So Spectres (with 6.0 golems and 6 Harmony) essentially need to contribute more than half of overall DPS to catch up to 4.1.1 w/ 14 Harmony.

Hello :)

Heres my simple test with Pob :

10x Jewels
234k x 4 = 936k
https://pastebin.com/TnveLxdL

14x Jewels
318k x 4 = 1272k
https://pastebin.com/F72fvwWw

I see only 25% increase in total damage when adding from 9x Harmones to 13x Harmonies.

Specters have at least double damage added to Flame Golems. Maybe its best to run both 14 jewels and Specs?

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Flashback event is starting soon and I might not get an answer in time but i wanted to ask this anyways..


What ascendancies do you go for while leveling as Elementalist? I'm pretty sure I only saw mentioning ones for necromancer

I'm still not sure if I wanna go for Elementalist or Necromancer since you can't change on the flashback "league". I'm leaning towards Elementalist but I don't know :(

Hello :)

Elementalist is nice as starting class if you want to go for Golems early and know what your doing. Necro is in general bit cheaper and easier, but Elementalist gets more choices between 6x and 4+1+1 mix.

You cant start running 4x Golems nicely with both extra Golems Ascendancy nodes and Clayshaper. Specters in Elder helmet will deal high damage to bosses and add to total damage while saving for Anima Stone.

I have usually leveled as Necro but have heard from players that leveling Elementalist is very cheap and easy too. Both are very strong choices and should be able to do all content with decent gear.

can you play this as SSF??

Hello and thanks for the awesome build! Killed guardians and shaper with it :) Wanna ask did u have any videos uber atziri map? After runing i think need some changes in setup, because pets died quickly and need better dps.

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mika2salo wrote:

Hello :)

Heres my simple test with Pob :

10x Jewels
234k x 4 = 936k
https://pastebin.com/TnveLxdL

14x Jewels
318k x 4 = 1272k
https://pastebin.com/F72fvwWw

I see only 25% increase in total damage when adding from 9x Harmones to 13x Harmonies.

Specters have at least double damage added to Flame Golems. Maybe its best to run both 14 jewels and Specs?

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. The discussion isn't about X Harmony vs. Y Harmony. It's about 4.1.1 setup vs. 6.0 setup.

Anyway, there are several things I find strange about the trees you posted. The main thing is you haven't disabled Stone Golem from the Clayshaper. You're probably looking at 4.1.1.1 vs. 6.1. Disable the Stone Golem and you'll see that 4.1.1 is clearly ahead.




Other (off-topic) stuff:

Relative Spectre Damage
Spectre damage is quite formidable, of course, but it's not exactly free. Do you run a Spectre-based weapon or Clayshaper(s), for example? Death Attunement is pretty much a mandatory node for Spectres, but inefficient for Elementalist Golems. Harmony does nothing for Spectres. etc. etc. For those that plan to run Golems+Specs, the question of what to keep/sacrifice is another issue entirely. At any rate, assuming Spectres will simply double Golem damage isn't accurate imo. You can't just splice in a few Tukohama's Vanguards and think you'll get the same output as an actual Spectre build like Natt's.

The trees you posted are clearly Necro-based, which lowers potential DPS for Elementalist Golems. That's fine. If you believe Spectres are that much better on bosses, I think you might as well go all the way and try to pump the Spectres more. Cut down on Golem DPS since trash doesn't need so much damage anyway. (Run the bare minimum of 3x Harmony, run Flame Golems only, use more generic damage minion damage jewels, swap Skin for Vis Mortis, etc.)

Using Presence w/ +1 Curse Corruption
Saves 3 points from the LVL 98 tree. Not many players will bother leveling that high. The vast majority of players will never own a +1 curse Presence (or the +2 Skin also), which basically makes the first tree a LVL 101 Witch and second a LVL 119 Witch. I know they're probably just throwaway test trees to you, but they're not really useful for other players to use as a reference imo.

Using Victario's
For Flame Golems, this might be somewhat of a waste. Even with 8x Harmony, Spell Echo + 3x Frenzies appears to significantly outstrip how fast Flame Golems replenish charges.

Ascendancy Points
If you're playing softcore, you might as well get Beacon of Ruin instead of Paragon for the virtually free 20% shock.

10x/14x Jewels ≠ 9x/13x Harmony
It's 8x and 12x Harmony according to your pastebins.

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mika2salo wrote:

Tukohama Specters however deal lot more damage than the 20% extra you can gain with 14 jewels. Specters are broken good atm and Golems can't compete with fair damage boosts against that kind of difference. TVs are however really bad at clear-speed, so mixing both gives best of both worlds.

Mika,

On this note, have you tried the build with an alternative gear setup:

6L vis mortis + midnight bargain for 5TVs and 3FG?

I feel like even 3 FGs is enough for map clearing, so focusing more damage on the boss via TVs would make end game feel better.