Tanky Elementalist-Golemancer sure is rare build and catches attention. Nice too see non-suicide build once in a while. Your gear is very good, gz on getting it. Such high ES and res rolls must have cost a fortune.
You don't seem to use many defense mechanics, so your build style is most expensive one, which is stacking exalts on exalts until you stop dying at all.
I would love to see your builds clear speed in normal maps. You basically can't die in any below T15 map, but you have no minion movement speed or charge generation. It's just 4 Flame Golems shooting at lowest possible speed.
Some questions I have :
- Is map clear speed still ok?
- Why don't you use GMP on Golem links?
- How much gear costed in total?
- Can you do all bosses deathless easily or hard?
- Do you have time to cast Scorching Ray in boss fight and is damage increase notable?
Such is the way of ES regen tanks :p. I have a 18k armour 5.4k hp 1.5k es, legacy aegis 73/68 passive block golemancer too (TheRuthlessOne) which was much cheaper to setup and was unkillable in maps sans volatiles :s but had terrible survivability against bosses (hp builds without leech ugh). Got annoyed at some of the deaths and decided to setup this CI regen tank char.
Clear speed is alright tbh. Erm lowest cast speed means 0 right? I don't think I have 0% cast speed lol. Let's look at minion damage. 7 harmonies + 1 eminence + 40% golem enchant + 65% minion dmg from tree + 12% cast speed from tree. 7 *20*2 + 40+ 65 = 385% minion dmg with 32% inc cast speed. That is still ok damage. On top of that I have a dual curse setup of elemental weakness and flammability linked to gmp + ball lightning(EE) which brings dps to a more than acceptable level for mapping and boss kills. Path of building is not always right especially when it comes to minion skills/damage but it has my golem's flame wave pegged at 113k effective dps against normal mobs and 75k against bosses ( reduced curse effectiveness and fire res) . When everything dies within a single cast it honestly doesn't matter too much how fast or slow you cast speed is. Your clear speed is now possibly bottle-necked by your skill cooldowns which is what the harmonies are for.
Some base cooldown numbers : Flame wave cooldown is 2 seconds, Magma ball is 6 seconds.
tldr : I hit harder you cast faster :s
It would be easy for me to swap to a 11.5k es 6 golems, 11 harmonies [700 %+ inc dmg with dual curse] setup which does way more damage with 10 regrets and a few equipment swaps. But the main goal of this build is to be unkillable even in the worst situations while being able to do all content at a decent speed.
I have never relied much on minion speed for my summoner builds unless they are zombie focused. The playstyle would be a bit different where you have to run ahead and drag your minions along or forcefully port them when you exceed the leash distance[I have 2 quicksilvers] when convocation is on cooldown.
The most common skill used by flame golems against monsters in melee range is flame wave which is gimped by GMP's less modifier. By replacing GMP with elemental focus, single target damage against bosses becomes so much more reliable and higher. I do have a 2nd chest which I swap to for GMP for map clearing if needed. Tried forcing the golems to use magma ball on boss fights with frost wall before etc but it was so terribly clumsy and awkward.
Mentioned it a few times on reddit but almost all of my rare gear is self crafted[maybe 20 ex in crafting cost + a lifetime of luck] :p recently bought a + 1 regalia for 15 ex and that's about it. I would think everything adds up to quite a bit though!
yeah all bosses are really easy on this char so there is no problem doing them deathless.
The dps increase from scorching ray is immense :O. Scorching Ray + vaal lightning trap just makes bosses vaporize
Sorry about wrong wording, I meant that Golems didn't get notable additional movement or cast speed buffs outside tree nodes.
I actually did Uber atziri run today to compare to your Uber Atziri video as it is best reference right now. I did some very interesting observations :
Damage
Your Golems hit harder. It was especially noticable in boss fights that your dual offensive curse setup adds lot more damage. Bosses died about 20% faster with your setup.
However my Golems cleared trash at least double speed compared to your Golems. I tried running 4x Golems for compare without charges and I had slight speed advantage cause I have GMP and lot faster Golems movement speed. BUT when I added Charity charges mobs literally melted. The spam and ignite from criticalts cleared rooms in seconds. If you haven't tried Charity yet, I recommend highly as it almost doubles trash clear speed.
From what I understand Atziri or Shaper can't be shocked, so Vaal Lightning trap does nothing. They are the only bosses that would really need faster kill time so it's a shame.
Survival
You had much higher ES buffer to take hits and regen fixed you back in seconds. However you took lots of hits in boss fight and had trouble kiting among fast moving trash mobs as they hit you below 50% HP very fast. Especially Vaal robots without TC seemed to pound you very hard.
In comparison I took almost 0 hits from trash mobs even when kiting among them as 75% TC and Phase Run makes them trivial. Vaal robots and Trio didn't hit me even once. I died in Uber Atziri once as 9k ES is not enough to tank double blast without flasks. You did it deathless.
Utility
Your build is good as it is, you run all map with what you have on and no item swaps.
I used 3x Shields and propably would be wise to swap Ruby flask also.
Results
I believe that both builds can benefit from each other. I'm trying to test if you methods work on my build.
I had Scorching ray -> Cast when channeling -> Desecrate -> Bone Offering setup to drop enemy res and keep block up all the time. I will try it again of damage boost is noticable.
Where did you get Golems cooldown times for skill? I haven't found them myself. I run 5-6x harmonies so I get almost full cooldown reduction.
I will try to clone your build for my lvl 94 witch if I find similar gear even near reasonable price :P
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
...I would run 2x curses as auras are pretty much wasted on Flame Golems.Please explain why auras are wasted on Flame Golems.
Anger is probably the best one, but adds very little damage for the cost.
Haste's cast speed is nice, but Dex requirement get very heavy near level 20. Golems get enough movement speed from rings, ammy and Frenzy charges already.
Hatred and Wrath are best of the damage auras, but don't work with Flame Golems.
Defensive auras are good for character, but Golems don't really need them.Thanks for this feedback. I've been trying to run a hybrid Aurabot/Golemancer in order to 1) Be primarily a support character but also to 2) be able to run solo whenever I want. I don't mean to be off topic in your thread, but can you tell me if Golems are just the wrong type of Minion for what I want to do? Should I be using something like Spectres instead to go with 7-9 auras?
I'm usually online at 21:00-23:00 Gmt +3 :)
My friend started doing my build with Guardian. He's using Flame Golems lvl 19/20(no empower) at the moment and Golems clear even T14 in slow speed. Flame Golems aura build is doable, but damage can be really low in T16 or over boss fights. It should be however more than enough for T15 and below.
Aura based minion builds usually use SRS as they benefit from both melee auras and anger. Auramancers usually have high mana regen from clarity so SRS cost is not problem. I'm 90% sure that SRS is best minion based aura build in terms of clearspeed and DPS. It is however completely different to play as it requires active casting and can't do no regen maps.
If you want more passive play style you can use Flame Golems for medium speed. Other choise is to mix Melee based Stone Golems and Melee spectres. This will let minions get bonus from Hatred and maybe Wrath with phys to lightning. Problem is however melee based Golems and spectres horrible AI.
I'd say it's worth try with Flame Golems, as you can easily convert for other Golems or add spectres. Even switch for SRS if all else fails is easy.
PS. I checked your gear and you can try swapping SRS for 6 link and Golems in the helmet for extra coverage. Golem's gain next to nothing from "United in dream" and "envy" as fire damage can't poison. SRS on the other hand stacks poison very quickly with "Envy"
Golem links should be Flame Golem -> Empower -> Gmp -> Spell Echo.
I've implemented your suggestion. It is better than before and I like it! I would appreciate it if you could review my gear again. Character is WytchLL_Legacy. For the helm, would Minion Damage Support be better than GMP since it would get +2?
Last edited by tainium#4935 on May 19, 2017, 7:07:42 AM
...I would run 2x curses as auras are pretty much wasted on Flame Golems.Please explain why auras are wasted on Flame Golems.
Anger is probably the best one, but adds very little damage for the cost.
Haste's cast speed is nice, but Dex requirement get very heavy near level 20. Golems get enough movement speed from rings, ammy and Frenzy charges already.
Hatred and Wrath are best of the damage auras, but don't work with Flame Golems.
Defensive auras are good for character, but Golems don't really need them.Thanks for this feedback. I've been trying to run a hybrid Aurabot/Golemancer in order to 1) Be primarily a support character but also to 2) be able to run solo whenever I want. I don't mean to be off topic in your thread, but can you tell me if Golems are just the wrong type of Minion for what I want to do? Should I be using something like Spectres instead to go with 7-9 auras?
I'm usually online at 21:00-23:00 Gmt +3 :)
My friend started doing my build with Guardian. He's using Flame Golems lvl 19/20(no empower) at the moment and Golems clear even T14 in slow speed. Flame Golems aura build is doable, but damage can be really low in T16 or over boss fights. It should be however more than enough for T15 and below.
Aura based minion builds usually use SRS as they benefit from both melee auras and anger. Auramancers usually have high mana regen from clarity so SRS cost is not problem. I'm 90% sure that SRS is best minion based aura build in terms of clearspeed and DPS. It is however completely different to play as it requires active casting and can't do no regen maps.
If you want more passive play style you can use Flame Golems for medium speed. Other choise is to mix Melee based Stone Golems and Melee spectres. This will let minions get bonus from Hatred and maybe Wrath with phys to lightning. Problem is however melee based Golems and spectres horrible AI.
I'd say it's worth try with Flame Golems, as you can easily convert for other Golems or add spectres. Even switch for SRS if all else fails is easy.
PS. I checked your gear and you can try swapping SRS for 6 link and Golems in the helmet for extra coverage. Golem's gain next to nothing from "United in dream" and "envy" as fire damage can't poison. SRS on the other hand stacks poison very quickly with "Envy"
Golem links should be Flame Golem -> Empower -> Gmp -> Spell Echo.
I've implemented your suggestion. It is better than before and I like it! I would appreciate it if you could review my gear again. Character is WytchLL_Legacy. For the helm, would Minion Damage Support be better than GMP since it would get +2?
Added Chaos gives tons of damage for poison as SRS hits in large packs, I would certainly test it out.
If you could add Elemental Equilibrium somehow yourself, you could get 50% extra penetration for Golems and other half or SRS damage. Classic way is to use :
Spell Totem -> Arc to do Lightning damage and trigger EE. Minions can't trigger EE so they can do increased damage after hit.
I think GMP is more useful as Golems are mostly doing trash clearing while SRS does the serious boss killing damage. More coverage to clear trash faster is better than few point of more total dps.
I'm traveling for few days so I'll write more when I get back home to my PC. Can't write very long with my phone.
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on May 20, 2017, 5:17:31 PM
Why minions need movement while you can increase damage of them???:D
Hi :)
Minion damage is indeed very important, but you cant get it on rings. You can get in on unique amulet, but also miss lots of ES modifiers. Minion speed is cheap and easy to get in both rings and ammy with good ES and resistances, so its not like your sacrificing damage. Ofc, running minion speed gem in six link is pure madness and I would never recommend it.
Minion speed in important as :
1) Minions AI is not perfect, they get stuck and run too far from you. Movement speed lets them get back to you faster and keep you safe and DPS running all the time.
2) It's great for defense. If you place Totem minions will go to that location. With 80-90% they almost teleport there and with 0% movement speed they take some time to go there and draw aggro from you.
3) If someone in party uses haste of you use movement flask, minions get left behind without movement speed and start to randomly teleport after you. It's not very consistent and you have less targets around you for enemies to hit.
4) Its good for clear speed. With more speed minions are moving around much more actively and finding new targets to shoot. If you test 0% and 80% or more you will see the difference with clearing trash mobs around the screen.
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on May 20, 2017, 5:12:48 PM
For charge generation, is it just the two-piece combo of Charity & Aegis or is there another component? I tried just those two...the charge generation seemed unreliable and insignificant.
For charge generation, is it just the two-piece combo of Charity & Aegis or is there another component? I tried just those two...the charge generation seemed unreliable and insignificant.
Hey :)
Haven't found decent ES gear for good price yet to make comparison. My friend however made hybrid from my and the regen tank build. He using Occultist for faster ES regen and dual curse.
The build variant feels pretty tanky with 15k ES and almost constantly regen. He has about 1500 ES passive regen and 5k with recharge. Gems are not yet full level and gear is not very good so can propably push for 17-18k easy with good gear.
Best combo is with my build in party as I generate charges for hes Golems and Phase Run. He tanks for me and we both have 75% TC so it's very safe. Damage is good for at least T15 farming and build almost can't die in maps below t16. Seems like Golemancer can be build with each Witch Ascendancy nicely.
Minions generate charges almost instantly for you when you are near them and generate their own charges all the time. Combo is just Charity & Aegis for generating them, but they add huge damage boost and nice defense. Try if you like it and test other Clayshaper or ES shield if you find it lacking. After ES nerf in 3.0 all tricks to lower aggro will be worth gold, so I think Phase Run and Bone Offer will be much stronger after it.
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on May 28, 2017, 7:00:05 PM
which is what I'm currently using. But I'm not sure on how safe the other build is or which of these builds are better in general.
Which would be better for a noobish player on HC?
Hi :)
Elementalist does more damage but has lower defense. I think both builds are pretty risky for HC if you are aiming for T16 as both have almost 0% phys defence and ES nerf is coming in 3.0. Also with no leech you take 2-3 hits and die in t16.
However my build has more defense mechanics so its bit saver for farming it you don't do guardians. Just replace some nodes with ES % and you are very safe.
[3.12] Flame Golem 101 - Complete Guide To Golemancy, All Bosses Down, Necro, Elementalist
https://tinyurl.com/y8k9fa2f
Last edited by mika2salo#7776 on May 28, 2017, 7:01:55 PM
