How We Approach Console Development

Don't be silly guys : programming for Xbox is near programming for Windows , and more near to windows 10. So it no waste of time.

Ok if it was for Nintendo's console it will not same things, and for PS4 maybe too different and cost too much for dev kit.

An Xbox is a PC Windows with special GUI.

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Arialia wrote:

Don't be silly guys : programming for Xbox is near programming for Windows , and more near to windows 10. So it no waste of time.

Ok if it was for Nintendo's console it will not same things, and for PS4 maybe too different and cost too much for dev kit.

An Xbox is a PC Windows with special GUI.

well, my concern and that of most others is not related to the technical aspects of programming for xbox one. I am concerned about the effects that the control limitations of a console will have on future game design decisions. I am worried that game design compromises/dumbing down which is driven by those console limitations will spill over to the pc version and thus negatively affect my poe experience.

We have been given a few things to think about
1. They have stated that the general direction of the game wont change
----->We can assume that they have a planned direction of the game, what they intend to do with it, acts planned out, and the like. This most likely will not change.
2. Xbone is a controller, so there are a few changes that are needed to make it work on the console, less flasks, loss of point and click spells, not being able to hover over things.
----->These are mechanical changes that will not be present on the PC version, because they take a different play path than how the PC version is done. These changes will not spill over.
3. You don't own stock in the company, thus you cannot tell them how to spend the money you give them
----->While this is a direct jab at those people who are saying things like "i didn't support you so that you could do This/That/etc with my money". Those people need to remember, they are a business first and foremost, every business looks to expand their revenue stream. While a company will listen to someone's grievances, you cannot expect them to simply throw away money because you "don't like it". At the end of the day, if you don't agree with their business practice that they are going towards, you can simply refuse to spend any more money. Remember, money speaks to a business, if everyone doesn't like it and stops spending money, then they will likely listen.
4. Bossfight mechanics don't need to change for the PC, just the console. The core of the story doesnt change because the console has a different set of mechanics for the boss.
----->They can simply have 2 separate boss fight scenarios, The PC version has its bossfights continue to be implemented the way they would if the Console version did not exist. (I don't understand this argument, they specifically stated that there would be DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO GAMES, and bossfight mechanics can easily be one of them) Whereas on the console, it might play out differently. TBH though i cannot think of a single mechanic that wouldn't be at least someway feasible on the console without making it absurdly complex on the PC. If a fight is so incredibly point click intensive that you couldn't possibly attempt it on the console, i strongly feel that it would be one of those bossfights that would be more of a total pain in the ass to do. So no argument there can really stand on its merits.

To conclude: The game SHOULD NOT CHANGE FOR THE PC, mechanics present on the Xbone version may not directly reflect the PC version, but that doesnt mean that the PC version has to change as a result. It seems like the logic displayed against this is INCREDIBLY circular, its as if you are trying to portray the development team as "But we have to think about the console versionnnnnn". That would be specifically what the Xbone team would be doing, "how can we make this mechanic fit on the console? It wont work well there? How can we change it to make it work?" It would not be connected to the PC development at all.

I remember Chris Wilson stating on ziggyd in a recent interview that his plan is to bring the game to a state where players can also watch tv while playing.
Xbox one is a good start for that.

NO, sorry. BUt by just having a second version of the game on a console, it will directly affect the pc game, by having less players, or unhappy players because now there is a console version with better droprates and such. Just by it being there will DIRECTLY Affect the PC gamers in a non positive way.

I see this repetitive argument from both streamers, reddit and forum users how the xbox will influence future skill design content as if that is a bad thing. To support this argument the changes to skills and the addition of new skills are mentioned. As if that is a negative thing?

Seriously most mechanical and finicky old skills just suck, things were not better in the past the game has massively improved on all aspects. Does it suck that some skills are OP and the game is to easy? Well maybe stop playing double dip? There are tons of very viable stong builds that you can play and are fun to play. PoE always has issues with mechanical interaction being unbalanced and one form or the other being more accessible to end game, literally every iteration of PoE. The argument that it will or can be a negative thing that might happen I now will officially counter with, it might be an only or mostly positive influence on the entire game. Just because a mouse allows for more precise control does not mean that a control or feature designed for it is the best solution. In fact as far back as the playstation 1 that saw the first ports of strategy games to a console, such as red alert, the lessons learned from it has massively improved the pc end of controls.

There will be a ton of improvements possible taking lessons from console gaming that would improve this game. The importance of narrative and camera motion are far more important, because you are more likely to share the view of the game with others and the game is more likely to be played on a tv screen. (I also played PoE on my 4k 65 inch screen, but the set up with cables etc. was not that comfortable :( ). Some motion pan in PoE would graphically be awesome.

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Ozgwald wrote:

I see this repetitive argument from both streamers, reddit and forum users how the xbox will influence future skill design content as if that is a bad thing. To support this argument the changes to skills and the addition of new skills are mentioned. As if that is a negative thing?

Seriously most mechanical and finicky old skills just suck, things were not better in the past the game has massively improved on all aspects. Does it suck that some skills are OP and the game is to easy? Well maybe stop playing double dip? There are tons of very viable stong builds that you can play and are fun to play. PoE always has issues with mechanical interaction being unbalanced and one form or the other being more accessible to end game, literally every iteration of PoE. The argument that it will or can be a negative thing that might happen I now will officially counter with, it might be an only or mostly positive influence on the entire game. Just because a mouse allows for more precise control does not mean that a control or feature designed for it is the best solution. In fact as far back as the playstation 1 that saw the first ports of strategy games to a console, such as red alert, the lessons learned from it has massively improved the pc end of controls.

There will be a ton of improvements possible taking lessons from console gaming that would improve this game. The importance of narrative and camera motion are far more important, because you are more likely to share the view of the game with others and the game is more likely to be played on a tv screen. (I also played PoE on my 4k 65 inch screen, but the set up with cables etc. was not that comfortable :( ). Some motion pan in PoE would graphically be awesome.

And your counter argument is what? That game being balanced for the past 2 years with gamepads in mind is ok?
That being able to clear all content with shitty gear is ok?
Having only aoe skills is ok?
This is not POE.
This is exactly the route d3 took with the power creep.
People are disturbed by the fact that the most needed fixes,like a trading system in a game that relies 90% on trading are still not here,servers are still shit,mtx stash is a mess,guild managing is a mess,stability is for laughs,yet they push resources towards making game more casual.
It's inevitable,this is what gaming history has shown for games that run on pc and consoles.
I doubt that console players will equally support so it's our money solving half the pc problems they would if xbox port was not existent.
I seriously hope you don't believe that xbox poe will run smooth with no extra resources neede for fixes
I may not have supporter titles but i spent over 300$ on mine and the wife's account for stupid things hoping that i was helping make the game better.
And to my standards i was actualy helping making it worse.
Poe was not meant to be a sit back relax and explode screens of mobs.
I would not spend more than 25$ on such a game.
Disregarding my personal opinion,reality showed that people are tottaly not happy and will now think twice before buying stupid mtx for 40$ or 50$ supporter packs.

Hey I think its great you're bringing it to consoles, hoping for it on one I actually own later on. If you guys really don't plan on doing it on others please god add controller support. It doesn't have to be straight copy from the X1 version, just something.

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We hired new team members specifically for the the console project. They were directly responsible for the massive improvements to frame rate, client load times, memory use, as well as the introduction of the 64-bit client, DirectX 11 renderer and new audio system. These changes were immediately released to the PC version as soon as they were available. Even if you're not a console gamer, this project improved the game for you.

That's actually pretty scary to read. You're saying that without XBox One project you wouldn't continue working on improvements? What else are you not working on waiting to hire a team for PS4 release for example?

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PsOfOs wrote:

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Ozgwald wrote:

I see this repetitive argument from both streamers, reddit and forum users how the xbox will influence future skill design content as if that is a bad thing. To support this argument the changes to skills and the addition of new skills are mentioned. As if that is a negative thing?

Seriously most mechanical and finicky old skills just suck, things were not better in the past the game has massively improved on all aspects. Does it suck that some skills are OP and the game is to easy? Well maybe stop playing double dip? There are tons of very viable stong builds that you can play and are fun to play. PoE always has issues with mechanical interaction being unbalanced and one form or the other being more accessible to end game, literally every iteration of PoE. The argument that it will or can be a negative thing that might happen I now will officially counter with, it might be an only or mostly positive influence on the entire game. Just because a mouse allows for more precise control does not mean that a control or feature designed for it is the best solution. In fact as far back as the playstation 1 that saw the first ports of strategy games to a console, such as red alert, the lessons learned from it has massively improved the pc end of controls.

There will be a ton of improvements possible taking lessons from console gaming that would improve this game. The importance of narrative and camera motion are far more important, because you are more likely to share the view of the game with others and the game is more likely to be played on a tv screen. (I also played PoE on my 4k 65 inch screen, but the set up with cables etc. was not that comfortable :( ). Some motion pan in PoE would graphically be awesome.

And your counter argument is what? That game being balanced for the past 2 years with gamepads in mind is ok?
That being able to clear all content with shitty gear is ok?
Having only aoe skills is ok?
This is not POE.
This is exactly the route d3 took with the power creep.
People are disturbed by the fact that the most needed fixes,like a trading system in a game that relies 90% on trading are still not here,servers are still shit,mtx stash is a mess,guild managing is a mess,stability is for laughs,yet they push resources towards making game more casual.
It's inevitable,this is what gaming history has shown for games that run on pc and consoles.
I doubt that console players will equally support so it's our money solving half the pc problems they would if xbox port was not existent.
I seriously hope you don't believe that xbox poe will run smooth with no extra resources neede for fixes
I may not have supporter titles but i spent over 300$ on mine and the wife's account for stupid things hoping that i was helping make the game better.
And to my standards i was actualy helping making it worse.
Poe was not meant to be a sit back relax and explode screens of mobs.
I would not spend more than 25$ on such a game.
Disregarding my personal opinion,reality showed that people are tottaly not happy and will now think twice before buying stupid mtx for 40$ or 50$ supporter packs.

What power creep? This game went from desync to playable. To having only higher and higher level mobs with more and more one shot damage to the now triggered ballet dances of death. The game has never been more difficult than it is today, it offers a shit ton of new deadly content that use to not even exits. You got the labyrinth with traps you can navigate through. Things are far more playable now than they used to be. You can actually die in numerous ways, all the veterans should remember desync one shot deaths. Who want desync ossecati back. Next league GGG should give people an ingame option to turn, that says: "area contains random 1 shot desync brutus or ossecati." You get an achievement for completing this difficulty. Yeah op mechanical interaction exists and can make content too easy, that is what PoE is. Vaalpact has always been a balance issue in this game. It must be the most traveled keystone if not general node of all nodes.

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This is exactly the route d3 took with the power creep.

You and many others have concerns, justified concerns as I posted earlier in this thread I have them also, but nothing more than that. I played d3 from the start, I remember the RMT and mass botted auction house of fail, up to the real money auction house of f%&^ck my playerbase, while the entire time there was no real endgame since all it was, was monster damage behind ridiculous high numbers. Yeah the same endgame PoE had, just stupid one shot and apparently everyone has already forgotten it. Well seeing how much players we have now compared to back then, thank god the numbers support GGG's vision. I do not feel like PoE is anything like d3 at all, but in same game genre.

Here is something everyone also agreed upon always: "d3 is mechanically far more playable than PoE, and it still is." PoE itemization and build variety with numerous other content is far more complex and deeper than d3. The complexity has only grown, been added and in most cases has become far complexer than in the past.

I see a lot of positive contributions possible I named them also:
Narrative
Graphics
Cinematics
Mechanics
Quality of Life

All you have to offer: "things will be dumbed down, it will be casual." Yeah your proof? Probably completely based on the bias of mainstream titles that get the most attention, which by nature need to cater to more players and as a result tend to be more accessible. The bigger the title, the bigger the investment and the bigger the crowd to reach and earn back your investment.

It is the same thing as my question earlier in this thread: "Why not the PS4, what are the choices going for xbox? PS4 has a well known rpg fanbase." Is that the whole truth? No the truth is both consoles have such a big non uniform userbase, that you do not have to target the entire userbase for a success. Also the financial costs, ease of technology play a role. Is GGG aiming to be the next mainstream xbox title, or is GGG aiming to bring a playable version of PoE to the xbox? These are tow hugely different stances. Considering the size of their "new" team I think they took the latter stance.

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It's inevitable,this is what gaming history has shown for games that run on pc and consoles.

Here another quote I bet when you google for it, and yes you have to google for it, you might find 5 titles. This is all based on bias and the hogwash of nonsense between fanbases of platforms pc vs consoles. Webcomics such as vgcat can run spinoff comics based on this as people eat the cr#p of platform or console wars like cookie dough.
There is a base for this, yeah some big titles failed and in part due to trying to go on multiple platforms. Hey remakes always fail too right? Yeah another industry myth. Because that is all it is a myth. ALso many remakes that get trashed are actually good games, they only could not live up to the hype. Without D3 sticked into it, is diablo 3 a bad game? No diablo 3 is not a bad game at all. It would be unfair to call it a bad game, but it sure broke a lot of promises.
As early as the first consoles there have been successful ports. Lets start with tetris, a classic that works on any platform. Lets go to red alert, which pretty much opened up the strategy genre on consoles. That one had to have a mouse for that to work right? Same goes for the shooter genre, it would never find its way onto consoles. You know I was quite happy with some old final fantasy games ported to the pc. Mass effect was quite enjoyable on my pc. I should start up tomb raider soon and see how that goes. Guess what so much stuff is multiplatform and a success on multiplatforms that the fact they are a success on multiple platforms is NOTHING SPECIAL AT ALL. Do you know when it gets a headline, when during a development that failed stuff needs to be blamed. People getting sacked and studios tumbling down always make headlines and tend to linger within the gaming industry.

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Now to the point of how we support the pc title. You are right, I said this 3 years ago that supporter packs and such needed to change. They screwed up on the overpriced mtx "market" and they added mystery boxes. If I am buying a supporter pack I assume it is for the extra content and improvements only. It is kind of how it is marketed. GGG can only blame themselves.

Another stupid move is the timing of the announcement. You make it near the end of a league. People are a bit tired of the game, numbers are down and they want new meta, new content and a fresh league. One of the biggest announcement is that your are making a big investment that seems to not give them anything. I guarantee you that this announcement after a big content expansion would have not have the same out-lash.

I agree that a lot of content is overdue, desync was overdue for years. Not months but years. I think it has shown that performance and graphic improvements take a lot out of GGG, while what brings people into the game: content patches are easier to produce. Perhaps this new team is a big investment, perhaps in such a nature that expanding and reaching out to new consumer markets is a must. Considering the huge improvements I noticed in this game I would say that they are paying of.

Stuff like a market is not easy solvable. There is a large portion of the player-base like me who want self-found and don;t need player interaction. Hey give us an offline version and we are happy. I don;t want an auction house, it dictates drop rates and design, like how open trading does now also. It will be botted and it will have flaws and the people from i.e. alpha tester crowd will garner the fruits yet again. The player-base is hugely divided over the solution there are many who favor the current system. A solution could very well bring a lot of development risk with it, to please the largest population base. I can imagine it soaking up quite some future development resources, just to maintain.

My major concern is can GGG pull it off, can they get the investment back? It is hard to tell what will happen as so little has actually been said.