[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

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fentowninya wrote:

looking to upgrade my gears..any thoughts on which items should be prioritized to upgrade...thank you and great guide again

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_Tiem wrote:

It's true. Just because you have your head buried in the sand doesn't make it false.

Spoiler

On my build, which is pretty close to as perfect as you can get (unless I spent more coin on mirror worthy gear), my Cyclone dps is 420k. Each MB projectile is 33k. (These values are all against Shaper.) There are 7 projectiles for a total damage of 37k*7=259k. That is if all land and all have the max buff from PB. Looks amazing right? Wow, that's about 60% more damage!

But wait, there's only a 20% chance of them proc'ing. So if Cyclone is doing 420k damage at an attack rate of 4 (it's actually 3.85), then you'll see it proc once. And there's no real world scenario where every projectile hits. Sure you may get a good spread of 50% or the enemy may up and move and all of them miss. I've seen this in lots of boss fights, especially Shaper who is quite mobile unless he's channeling. So let's be liberal and say half hit (I suspect that's actually pretty accurate).

So that number goes down to about 125k per 420k. So let's say MB brings 25-30%. Seems good right? Still good. 30% more damage is pretty good. Now let's see what DS brings:

(15-25)% increased Area of Effect during Flask Effect
2 additional Projectiles during Flask Effect

Firstly, 25% iAOE will push MB up 1 AOE Radius. GGG nerfed the way AOE works and how each percent interacts with itself waaaaay back in something like 2.4. AOE is pretty worthless where most of the AOE is baked into each skill, so stacking it outside of the gem iAOE returns very little, especially from what it did before the big AOE reworking.

Secondly, adding 2 additional projectiles. If we opt for a realistic account, that means only 1 will land. But let's be liberal and say both will. Now you have 5*37k, which equals 185k (up from 125k). So you're effectively adding 60k to your total damage of 565k. Which is about 11% more damage on the whole. So for 7ex, you are getting a small window of 11% more damage.

Adding hysteria rolls to your ring (Gain 10% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage) brings about 5% more. That's 5% more to not only your MB projectiles, which let's say are still 30% (I'm still not buying that many hit but let's say for the sake of the argument they do) but also to Cyclone, which makes up the other 70%. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 5% of 70% and 5 of 30% is still more than 11% of 30%. And that's 100% uptime. Wowa, lots of percentages.

Having them max rolled Opals brings that number up to around 9%. That's 9% to the entire build. Again 100% uptime.

So yeah man. It's not that DS does nothing. It's just that for how expensive it is, it should be last on the list of things to get. Pretty much like for the guy running Cyclone that has everything.

Putting your ex to maximum use. Go down my list and be happy. Or waste your money and get stupid flasks that bring next to nothing to the build. So yeah, math disagrees with you. I disagree with you.

*drops mic

PS: lol

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Even after the AOE nerf, it is still a great flask for all projectile damage. Is it mandatory? No it is not. Even budget flasks can kill Shaper.

But for players pushing for min/max gears, they can go for the flask.

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No unique flask brings consistent damage to the build since they only last 4.8 to 6 seconds. And flasks will tend to be the last thing you work on for upgrading (except Wise Oak and Lion's Roar as they are relatively cheap to acquire).

As I wrote above, for players going for min/max on their character, Dying Sun is an option.

Can the currency be better spend else where? Yes for certain. But over 20% of damage gain on Molten Balls isn't nothing.

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https://youtu.be/F-hX84phZzM?t=124

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_Tiem wrote:

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kira1414 wrote:

Molten Burst has Concentrated gem linked so the max range is 20 x 0.7 = 14 units.

Most balls damage fall within 40% to 50% damage gain (and not 30% as you mentioned) for point blank as shown in the picture below:

[...]

So stop saying Molten Burst only contribute a small part to the damage of the build and mislead other players, especially newcomers.

It's true. Just because you have your head buried in the sand doesn't make it false.

On my build, which is pretty close to as perfect as you can get (unless I spent more coin on mirror worthy gear), my Cyclone dps is 420k. Each MB projectile is 33k. (These values are all against Shaper.) There are 7 projectiles for a total damage of 37k*7=259k. That is if all land and all have the max buff from PB. Looks amazing right? Wow, that's about 60% more damage!

But wait, there's only a 20% chance of them proc'ing. So if Cyclone is doing 420k damage at an attack rate of 4 (it's actually 3.85), then you'll see it proc once. And there's no real world scenario where every projectile hits. Sure you may get a good spread of 50% or the enemy may up and move and all of them miss. I've seen this in lots of boss fights, especially Shaper who is quite mobile unless he's channeling. So let's be liberal and say half hit (I suspect that's actually pretty accurate).

So that number goes down to about 125k per 420k. So let's say MB brings 25-30%. Seems good right? Still good. 30% more damage is pretty good. Now let's see what DS brings:

(15-25)% increased Area of Effect during Flask Effect
2 additional Projectiles during Flask Effect

Firstly, 25% iAOE will push MB up 1 AOE Radius. GGG nerfed the way AOE works and how each percent interacts with itself waaaaay back in something like 2.4. AOE is pretty worthless where most of the AOE is baked into each skill, so stacking it outside of the gem iAOE returns very little, especially from what it did before the big AOE reworking.

Secondly, adding 2 additional projectiles. If we opt for a realistic account, that means only 1 will land. But let's be liberal and say both will. Now you have 5*37k, which equals 185k (up from 125k). So you're effectively adding 60k to your total damage of 565k. Which is about 11% more damage on the whole. So for 7ex, you are getting a small window of 11% more damage.

Adding hysteria rolls to your ring (Gain 10% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage) brings about 5% more. That's 5% more to not only your MB projectiles, which let's say are still 30% (I'm still not buying that many hit but let's say for the sake of the argument they do) but also to Cyclone, which makes up the other 70%. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 5% of 70% and 5 of 30% is still more than 11% of 30%. And that's 100% uptime. Wowa, lots of percentages.

Having them max rolled Opals brings that number up to around 9%. That's 9% to the entire build. Again 100% uptime.

So yeah man. It's not that DS does nothing. It's just that for how expensive it is, it should be last on the list of things to get. Pretty much like for the guy running Cyclone that has everything.

Putting your ex to maximum use. Go down my list and be happy. Or waste your money and get stupid flasks that bring next to nothing to the build. So yeah, math disagrees with you. I disagree with you.

*drops mic

PS: lol

"

Aeres wrote:

I just started poe earlier this month and after I couldn't find any fun in spectre witch I switched to this one and am having a lot of fun. My gear currently looks like this (not really fleshed out yet):

Spoiler

I am away 100c away from Xoph's. I feel like I am lacking armor, I only have about 1800. Where should I get armor on? After Xoph's what should be my next goal?

"

Aeres wrote:

I just started poe earlier this month and after I couldn't find any fun in spectre witch I switched to this one and am having a lot of fun. My gear currently looks like this (not really fleshed out yet):

Spoiler

I am 100c away from Xoph's. I feel like I am lacking armor, I only have about 1800. Where should I get armor on? After Xoph's what should be my next goal?

"

40 flat life + all resistance + flat physical or fire damage + #% damage penetrates elemental if you haven't kill recently

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aphaoooo wrote:

@kira1414 Just a suggestion, maybe you could sort the Lab Enchantments from the most useful one 1st ?

Also why you put added fire on cyclone setup at scion guide, instead of fort. You put fort in leap slam.

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kira1414 wrote:

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bipsylalapo wrote:

On this point, what's the ideal uncapped resistance then? Considering I'm going for Taste of Hate + Lion's Roar + Dying Sun, so no Wise Oak to spam for me.

And considering at endgame, most of the DPS comes from Cyclone and not Molten Burst, why is the additional projectile bonus from DS worth 7 ex for us?

Ideal overcap resist for fire, lightning and cold is 110.

Since you have Taste of Hate + Dying Sun, you should go for Wise Oak too.

The 15% penetration from Wise Oak is huge damage buff and it last for 6 seconds. And the flask provide 2 use on a full charge.

Taste of Hate + Dying Sun flask last 4.8 seconds each and holds 2 use on full charges too.

EDIT: And to answer the price on Dying Sun, Cyclone does not provide 85% of total damage. I would put it at 60% to 70% on well geared character.

Molten Burst still does good damage otherwise people won't be able to kill Shaper wearing Kaom's Heart.

2 additional projectiles = 28% more Molten Burst damage when all balls hits target.