[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

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mysoggyknee wrote:

@Miffy23

You want "gain % physical damage as extra fire damage." Not converted.

One of these

http://poe.trade/search/arasuharikahin

I am a moron that can't read.
Thanks!

Hey guys is the helm enchants listed by top being priority. I have both a 15 cyclone attack speed and 40 increased cyclone damage helm which is better?

"

Your character is hidden so I don't know how your tree look like. Gear wise, they are pretty decent. Rings can definitely get an upgrade but I would keep Wrath Knuckle ring. It is hard to replace that fella.

If you are adventurous, you can try rolling 3R2B1G on your Bronn (can be very costly).

And for leveling, definitely use Enfeeble instead of Flammability or Elemental Weakness. It gives you 30% more effective life pool. Which is huge.

Thanks for the tips. Enfeeble is a big deal i somehow overlooked. Will probably use it to push to 95. I have fixed my tree by buying two rings with int. Still not sure if i should try to incorporate vaal pact. Is 3R2B1G on Bronn a straight up improvement, or just another flavour? Might go after that as a chase item. Thanks again for putting this much work into the build.

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GraissE wrote:

Hello guys!

Working hard on trying to clear all the game contents.

Could you please let me know what I could do to improve my build?

I will not be able to afford the Xoph amulet yet, so I went on the avatar of fire node.

Here is my gear:

Spoiler

I have tried to 6L another Bronn for a long time now but no luck just yet!

Thank you a lot for the guide, really helped me understanding how this game works

I will hopefully kill Shaper one day :)

Your gears are generally good for Avatar of Fire skill tree.

Besides what @Absolutista mentioned on the flasks, and what you already know, your next biggest upgrade will be 6L.

So the next item I would aim at will be to get that 6L with the right color. :)

If you are using Xoph's Blood, to get enough int to use the gems (Concentrated need 111, Enfeeble 13 needs 120+), you can drop some damage for +30 int node (Ancestral Knowledge) + a 40 int ring.

Alternatively, get 70+ int from gears (e.g. rings and jewels).

If you are not using Xoph's Blood, you just need a 30+ int ring to cover for the gems requirement.

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frenzul wrote:

Hey dudes. I just came back to PoE when this league started. It had been a while. I always just start playing the game with no build in mind and go the way that loot tempts me.

Surprisingly this time, I ended up doing well and I'm using cyclone/warchief/sunder for the first time. Long story short, I found this build, dropped sunder and picked up Ngamahu when I hit Act 10.

So now I am level 83 (my record is a level 84 essence drainer) and the last time I died was on the Act 10 boss. It's really fun, I have just been using upgrades that drop in T1-5 maps and it feels like butter cutting through mobs. I can pop all abysses I see at once, strongboxes, whatever. It's amazing.

Anyway - I just wanted say thank you even though I've half-assed it, as I slowly convert and use your build as a guide.

After picking through it a bit more while I'm at work today, I realized I think I actually got Bronn's to drop last night and I just tossed it in the bank not noticing it's a key item here. That will be fun to maybe work on while I map and try to socket something myself for the first time ever. Now I just need to figure out how to raise my damage a bit, although the 40k or so tooltip I'm at right now is far beyond anything I've ever played.

Spoiler

Here's some things I found so far on my own that I think fit the build ok.

Also confirmed, I have this sitting in my stash from last night lol..

Thanks for sharing your experience with the build. Looking at your skill tree, I can see what you meant by converting to the tree listed in guide. :)

Surgebinders are not suitable for the build. Tombfist will work better when you socket a murderous abyssal jewel into it as it gives you intimidate aura.

Otherwise, follow the recommended sections in the guide for gearing. :)

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Miffy23 wrote:

Favourite build last league, favourite build this league. Even better now with the new items!

Question for any1 that's done the math: how much of a DPS upgrade if Xoph's + xoph's skill build compared to Impresence/Avatar?

Using POB to compare:

No flask no buff DPS on Shaper:

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Impresence + Avatar of Fire + Anger + Flammability + Watcher's Eye (extra fire): 231735

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Xoph's Blood + Anger + Watcher's eye (extra fire): 261221

With buffs and flasks, Xoph's Blood with Watcher's Eye will pull way ahead.

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dperls wrote:

What shaper DPS on cyclone/molten burst in PoB should I shoot for if I want to try him? I dont want to rip the currency if I'm going to be dead in the water.

Spoiler

Also have a 24% added phys damage watcher's eye.

Think I can take him?

If your in hideout Cyclone dps with Concentrated is around 80+K, you should be able to take out Shaper. :)

And of course, the more dps you have on that, the easier it will be on Shaper. I was clearing him with 120+K cyclone damage back in 2.6 using SSF gears.

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_Tiem wrote:

Dude I did! Ok check it. All your gear. Disabled everything but covered in ash (took off blood rage too as you won't be getting the frenzy charges on Shaper or his guardians anyway). Cleaned everything up so it's not so sloppy.

Took out fortify and added fire pen and added fire. Now go select one or the other. Fire pen kicks out 297k, while added fire kicks out 286k. Fire pen brings +34.3% while added fire only brings +29.5% more damage.

I also cleaned up your tree in general. You get about 300 more life and a bit more damage. All you have to do is drop 10% increased leech from the VV cluster. You also get less mana consumption so you don't have to run with the mana flask. Tireless is a pretty kick ass node for this build as we run very close to the hilt when it comes to mana.

Primevil is a waste I'm telling you. Numbers don't lie.

Also take Cloth and Chain if you have to, it's waaayyy better than Diamond Skin as it gives you 36% increased evasion AND armor on top of the 15% resists. While DS only gives 15% armor and the resits. It's a no-brainer. Or you can drop CC entirely, roll cold and lightning on your boots, put one point back into 30 int and then you'd have one more node to kick around. If you put it into 5% life, you'd have 6720, which isn't so bad.

I don't know why you rolled fire resist on your boots. You have way too much fire resist. If you take that off and roll int, you can save that node one tree and put it to better use. You'll still be 43% over which takes care of EW on red maps. You also don't need Sybil's anymore with the changes to reflect. I have 2 opal rings and I don't even know reflect exists anymore.

Here's the link: https://pastebin.com/dESYeKNJ

Yes. This is what I want to see when it comes to debate. Facts and figures. Having a pastebin pasted makes it easier for the discussion. :)

A little history to the pastebin that I have used for this debate, it is the one listed in the guide, created in 2.6 SSF league (outdated by now).

Back then, reflect is a thing, thus Sibyl ring. And this ring has since been removed from the recommended section in the guide when 3.1 hits.

Diamond Skin was picked because of The Red Dream jewel that I was using in 2.6. I see that you have that removed from the pastebin you posted. That is fine.

The skill tree in that pastebin was also not following the latest version listed in the guide.

In terms of gear rolls, pretty much sharing things around my characters so we don't have to go into that. In SSF, there is no room for luxury when it comes to gearing. ;)

And I didn't bother to update that pastebin to fully reflect 3.1 changes since fundamentally it works the same.

Now lets get back to facts and figures, using your pastebin. Switching between Added Fire and Fire Penetration as the 6th gem for Cyclone.

"

Here is the stats from your pastebin with Added Fire as 6th gem (no flask, just covered in ash):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

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From the above, you are right that fire penetration version of Watcher's Eye is ahead of extra fire version.

So now things get very interesting if I replace Added Fire with Fire Penetration. It isn't what you had stated.

"

Here is the stats from your pastebin with Fire Penetration as 6th gem (no flask, just covered in ash):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

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From the above, it shows clearly that extra fire version of Watcher's Eye pull way ahead of fire penetration version.

Now, for science, I imported the latest 3.1 Primeval Force skill tree into your pastebin.

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Here is the stats without any flask active (Primeval Force provides more damage when you have at least 1 active flask):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

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From the above, Primeval Force or not, extra fire version of Watcher's Eye still pulls way ahead.

For even more Science, now lets use a more damage focused Primeval Force skill tree, also no active flasks.

"

Here is the stats without any flask active

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

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Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

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Once again, extra fire version of Watcher's Eye pulls further ahead.

Here is the pastebin based on the one you pasted, with 2 x imported 3.1 Primeval Force skill trees.

"

https://pastebin.com/uxuhcTkm

TLDR; Stats

Conclusion, if you can only afford a single anger roll on Watcher's Eye, go for:

Gain #% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage while affected by Anger

Btw, what prejudice do you have with Primeval Force? By any chance related to Star Wars?

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Miffy23 wrote:

My previous question was dumb, as it was in the FAQ.

However, another question: I'm running Impresence and Avatar and just got myself a Watcher's with just phys to fire. However it shows no increase in tooltip while running Anger for some reason? Going to doublecheck in PoB.

edit: PoB also shows no increase in dps at all. Is it because with Ngamahu + Avatar you already convert 100% and since it's not "extra" it doesn't add anything? If so, it would be good to not recommend Watcher's Eye with phys convert on front page while running Avatar (I may have missed it somewhere, but did not see anything relating to that so far).

If you are using a conversion Watcher's Eye, it doesn't add any damage because you are already at 100% conversion with Ngamahu + Avatar of Fire.

And converstion Watcher was never recommended. Only extra fire is. You can see that under recommended gears and FAQ. :)

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Speaker4TheDead wrote:

Hey guys is the helm enchants listed by top being priority. I have both a 15 cyclone attack speed and 40 increased cyclone damage helm which is better?

On Shaper, Increased attack speed helm enchant gives the most damage (slightly more than cyclone damage).

But personally, I will go for Cyclone damage because you can get attack speed from jewels and rings and it scales better.

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Pred8oar wrote:

Thanks for the tips. Enfeeble is a big deal i somehow overlooked. Will probably use it to push to 95. I have fixed my tree by buying two rings with int. Still not sure if i should try to incorporate vaal pact. Is 3R2B1G on Bronn a straight up improvement, or just another flavour? Might go after that as a chase item. Thanks again for putting this much work into the build.

Yes. 3R2B1G damage boost is significant, but costly to roll on Bronn. :(

If I can only get a 5l bronn. What are the colors I should be getting to max my damage. Am I missing out since I have 1g 2r 2b?

Hello, First I will like to say thank you for the awesome guide. I have been following this guide for my second ever PoE character and I have had alot of fun so far.

Can you recommend a gear update ? Is the lab enchantment on gloves better than the spiked gloves 20% ?
Here is what I have so far:

Hello.
I have a Questions:

a) Does the "proc" rate of Molten Burst have a cap? Or should be always go for more attack speed=more hits more procs? Like Poets pen, the procs have an internal cooldown of 250ms.
A friend of mine said something about 5 aps on Cyclone, but im not really sure.

If not i imagine attack speed would be our best damage increase.

b) I wonder what stats on Abyss and/or normal jewels would actually be THE best. So far i always took Abyss jewels with attack speed some flat life and flat added fire damage.

Kira
I went watcher's eye + tombfirst and min.max some other gear however losing the armour, life and res stats on the gloves (and jewel) has meant my life and armour took a beating however my dmg output has gone through the roof.

Can you have a look at my gear.
I went from 3K armour + 6.1k life to 5.9k life +2400 armour (tombfist + watcher's eye)
Not sure if it was all worth it...spent all my ex as well :(

As for damage, I saw an increased of +48% (at the expense of the above life and armour)...

Effective DPS using PoB went from 334936k cyclone to 496856 - cyclone dmg (not including molton burst or totem)

"

kira1414 wrote:

Spoiler

Yes. This is what I want to see when it comes to debate. Facts and figures. Having a pastebin pasted makes it easier for the discussion. :)

A little history to the pastebin that I have used for this debate, it is the one listed in the guide, created in 2.6 SSF league (outdated by now).

Back then, reflect is a thing, thus Sibyl ring. And this ring has since been removed from the recommended section in the guide when 3.1 hits.

Diamond Skin was picked because of The Red Dream jewel that I was using in 2.6. I see that you have that removed from the pastebin you posted. That is fine.

The skill tree in that pastebin was also not following the latest version listed in the guide.

In terms of gear rolls, pretty much sharing things around my characters so we don't have to go into that. In SSF, there is no room for luxury when it comes to gearing. ;)

And I didn't bother to update that pastebin to fully reflect 3.1 changes since fundamentally it works the same.

Now lets get back to facts and figures, using your pastebin. Switching between Added Fire and Fire Penetration as the 6th gem for Cyclone.

"

Here is the stats from your pastebin with Added Fire as 6th gem (no flask, just covered in ash):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

From the above, you are right that fire penetration version of Watcher's Eye is ahead of extra fire version.

So now things get very interesting if I replace Added Fire with Fire Penetration. It isn't what you had stated.

"

Here is the stats from your pastebin with Fire Penetration as 6th gem (no flask, just covered in ash):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

From the above, it shows clearly that extra fire version of Watcher's Eye pull way ahead of fire penetration version.

Now, for science, I imported the latest 3.1 Primeval Force skill tree into your pastebin.

"

Here is the stats without any flask active (Primeval Force provides more damage when you have at least 1 active flask):

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

From the above, Primeval Force or not, extra fire version of Watcher's Eye still pulls way ahead.

For even more Science, now lets use a more damage focused Primeval Force skill tree, also no active flasks.

"

Here is the stats without any flask active

Spoiler

Shaper DPS with Double Anger Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Extra Fire Watcher's Eye

"

Shaper DPS with Fire Pen. Watcher's Eye

"

Once again, extra fire version of Watcher's Eye pulls further ahead.

Here is the pastebin based on the one you pasted, with 2 x imported 3.1 Primeval Force skill trees.

"

https://pastebin.com/uxuhcTkm

TLDR; Stats

Spoiler

@_Tiem's Modified Skill Tree - More Life

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Added Fire as 6th Gem

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Shaper DPS with Double Anger: 290607
Shaper DPS with Extra Fire: 252031
Shaper DPS with Fire Pen.: 254444
Life: 6627

Fire Penetration as 6th Gem

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Shaper DPS with Double Anger: 301273
Shaper DPS with Extra Fire: 271146
Shaper DPS with Fire Pen.: 253269
Life: 6627

@_Tiem's Modified Skill Tree - More Damage (didn't include the screenshots but you can find it in the pastebin)

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Fire Penetration as 6th Gem

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Shaper DPS with Double Anger: 333247
Shaper DPS with Extra Fire: 299923
Shaper DPS with Fire Pen.: 279536
Life: 6105

3.1 Primeval Force Skill Tree Listed in Guide (without any active flask) - More Life

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Fire Penetration as 6th Gem

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Shaper DPS with Double Anger: 300370
Shaper DPS with Extra Fire: 271302
Shaper DPS with Fire Pen.: 253360
Life: 6621

3.1 Primeval Force Skill Tree Listed in Guide (without any active flask) - More Damage

"

Fire Penetration as 6th Gem

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Shaper DPS with Double Anger: 339063
Shaper DPS with Extra Fire: 306251
Shaper DPS with Fire Pen.: 285638
Life: 6166

NOTE: The above stats are no flask no buff (except covered in ash). The number differences will be much larger when fully buffed.

Conclusion, if you can only afford a single anger roll on Watcher's Eye, go for:

Gain #% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage while affected by Anger

Btw, what prejudice do you have with Primeval Force? By any chance related to Star Wars?

Ok you're all over the map. And I don't see the numbers you're getting so I'm not sure what you're ticking or doing in POB. Let's simplify. First off, this for the tree without PF:

Watcher's Eye (double Anger):
Fire Penetration: 301k
Added Fire: 290k

Watcher's Eye (added fire)
Fire Penetration: 271k
Added Fire: 252k

Watcher's Eye (fire penetration)
Fire Penetration: 253k
Added Fire: 254k

Fire Pen WE pulls ahead but less than 1% but it pales in comparison to the added fire variant. So don't get it because it's the same price as the added fire variant provides way less dps no matter which gem you socket. We can drop it from discussion as it's not a viable choice; there are plenty of added fire ones for sale.

Now if you opt back into PF:
Watcher's Eye (double Anger):
Fire Penetration: 305k
Added Fire: 296k

Watcher's Eye (added fire)
Fire Penetration: 275k
Added Fire: 258k

PF pulls ahead. I've never argued that it's weaker than other options, what I argued was that it comes at a cost. Namely losing life and an overlooked, but very valuable stat of dropping your mana consumption. Having 180 mana for a skill that requires 42 to cast is very restrictive. Which is why you have to run with a mana flask I'm betting. If you take Tireless, it shaves the cost from 42 to 36. It may not seem like much but it's actually enough to not worry about mana (unless you keep spinning into nothing). Losing the mana flask, you could pick up Writing Jar to proc Headsman, which would be a free 20% more damage multi proc. That's far bigger than scrounging a few percent on your total damage.

Also, I should point out that unless you overcap your fire to ridiculous levels, which is costly as that takes either nodes away from your pool, or worse, slots away from your gear, Taste of Hate is going to negate Wise Oak as it will drive cold resist beyond fire, nullifying the fire penetration it brings. So you can't pop them at the same time. Also, you have the legacy version in POB. The new one in Abyss+ is capped at 15%, not 20%, so you aren't getting the same mileage out of it. You really should update your POB link to Abyss. You could create a legacy one, but who really cares about Standard lol.

I don't hate PF, I just think it's expensive for the cost. Everything in POE is about cost vs reward. The cost doesn't justify the reward. If it was str travel nodes then hell yeah or even better int nodes which would save us from restrictive gearing and taking that 30 int from the tree, but they are dex, which are worthless to the build.

PS: Don't check "do you have a flask active" under the configuration tab. It does wonky things. If you want to activate all the flasks, just check them individually under the items tab.

"

Fedaykenn wrote:

Hello.
I have a Questions:

a) Does the "proc" rate of Molten Burst have a cap? Or should be always go for more attack speed=more hits more procs? Like Poets pen, the procs have an internal cooldown of 250ms.
A friend of mine said something about 5 aps on Cyclone, but im not really sure.

If not i imagine attack speed would be our best damage increase.

b) I wonder what stats on Abyss and/or normal jewels would actually be THE best. So far i always took Abyss jewels with attack speed some flat life and flat added fire damage.

The cooldown for MB projectiles is 0.15s, not 0.25s. Attack speed is optimal for Cyclone because of the inherent skill and how it works (contrary to skills like Ice Crash or EQ).

The best Abyss jewel stats are:



You ideally want:
Added # fire damage
Life
Added fire to axe attacks
Increased damage to Abyssal monsters

This build can support around around 4-6 (maybe 7?) depending on how you tune it. If you stack at least an average of 35% increased damage to abyssal monsters on each one, you're amping your damage by a whopping 140-210%. Trash explodes on a 4L. Even rare or magic mobs die in a flash when you reach end game stats. Abyssal monsters are ridiculously overtuned and you should have noticed this while leveling in the new league. So having that much actually puts them on par with regular trash.

It obviously doesn't help you with Shaper so you can elect to go with something else for the Shaper fight if you like. Added physical damage is excellent because we scale everything through it. So a good physical roll will pull ahead of a good fire roll. Flat life is amazing. About 30 flat life = 5% and if you can get a T1 roll (I believe its 50), then it will scale higher than a 7% roll on a regular jewel.

Other nice stats include:
-Increased % attack speed
-Added # physical damage
-Increased % damage if you've killed recently

And some nice supportive stats include:
-Increased # intelligence
-Increased % movement speed if you've killed recently (if you stack 5 of these at max rolls, you could up your speed by 20%! Movement speed is absolutely king as Leap Slam is a poor movement skill compared to Whirling Blades or Shield Charge. With Devoto's, top quality boots, you would have 80% movement speed if you kept your kills up!)
% to resistances