Ancestral Warchief

So i have spent the last few weeks playing an AW build in essence softcore league and i love the skill. With that being said i have some issues with it.

First issue is the interaction of hearld of ash not giving ng prolif with it yet still giving the dmg bonus is this a bug or intended?

Second is the delay between placement and first attack. If this animation could be scaled by some other attribute that is complimentary to the totem such as totem placement speed/attack speed/ or even by a new totem noteable or update an old noteable to include it (possibly the speed noteable near scion life wheel) it would be a huge quality of life change for both Ap and Aw totems.

Third is the fact that aw is just so much better then ap. If one is designed to be a single target scale its dmg to that of a single target skill, im not calling for a nerf on aw since for all but the most well geared it performs fine in 6 man parties, berserker is a little op with it due to the attack speed issue from ascendancy but still not game breaking.

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AdFinitum wrote:

Played a few dedicated Warchief totem builds and must say the delay between placing a totem and them actually attacking something is way to high. Totem builds are already punished by having to place something before being able to kill anything. This delay feels like it more than halves clear speed compared to non totem builds since I have to wait for seconds to then one shot a pack.

Which is also bad - very bad - for party play. Any build will clear the screen before a Warchief totem has drawn its weapon.

I am almost sure that delay has mostly cosmetic reasons which is bad for the actual gameplay - the totems are supposed to draw out the weapon in a nice looking animation. Please accelerate this animation and reduce delay. I want my totems to kill something not watch them drawing their weapon while monsters attack me or other people already killed all mobs.

Edit : The delay is so long that I had a lot of time to even watch the AI react to totem placement which is quiet interesting. For a split second they seem to pause while deciding which enemy to focus, player or totem ( considering its an AI they pause for a surprisingly long time ).

Other than that Ancestral Warchief is quiet enjoyable as a dedicated totem build.

Totally incorrect. I clear mobs and sometimes bosses before the rest of the party do much.

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Amongalen wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Insanely OP skill.

That...

First, let me say what build I played. I made dual warchief totem facebreaker juggernaut. Character name: AmongalenFBThree if u want to check my build and gear.
I'd say my gear isn't super bad but it isn't great neither. At 89lvl I was still useing 4l because there was no need for an upgrade, my dmg was great. Was running t10-11 maps in 2 man party, most white/blue mobs died almost instantly to one totem, rare/bosses died to two totems in 1-2 secs. With this gear, 4l and with 8 end charges (they increase dmg from jugg) I reached over 40k (43k or something) dps per totem so I got 80-90k dps with two totems.

That being said, warchief totems are just too strong in my opinion.
Lets compere them to any aoe melee skill. A single totem have:
* higher/similar dps
* similar aoe
* small placement delay vs u need to get to every mob
* can be placed more than one!
* can tank few hits for u so u can stay back

Lets compere them to spell totems then. Warchief totem:
* 8-18% more melee dmg aura
* 110-132.8% base dmg multi (similar to most aoe melee skills so its like no dmg penalty) vs (35-26)% less Damage for spell totems
* 10% less attack speed vs 30% less cast speed
* 50% increased placement speed

Imo warchief totems are far superior to both aoe melee skills and spell totems. I won't even compere them with ancestral protector because the second is a joke.

Not sure what was the main development idea behind ancestral totems but I've thought they were meant to be more of a supporting totems, not a main dmg source.
How I see it for warchief:
* more dmg aura increased to 25-30%
* base dmg multi and/or attack speed greatly decreased so in the end, with dmg aura, tooltip dps would be about 15-20% less
* maybe add "30-40% increased totem health" so they are a bit tankier without any totem node and dont get super tanky with them

For ancestral protector:
* it needs a buff!
* double aura bonus so its worth to use it sometimes

Thanks for your time reading this post :)

I have thought the same what you have found here and I'm glad that you put numbers out.

Still I think your change idea for aw is bit too weak, as currently it does far more damage than any other damage skill or totem. It does more damage even with 20% tooltip dps reduce. And still, you can also place multiple totems (In most scenarios you place 2 AW totems). And with that they double that far more damage part (well, not straight doubling as more damage aura doesn't stack which is good thing).

In summary, if it would be possible, I would upvote your post, but also say that your touch in AW totems is bit too soft. Still your idea to bring more their supportive attributes out is good.

Is GGG even reading this? Can you finally fix the "activation" delay? The skill itself is great but the delay is totally unnecessary. It makes the gameplay with totems so clunky. So in terms of clearspeed and partyplay totems just lose hard.

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Contractor wrote:

Is GGG even reading this? Can you finally fix the "activation" delay? The skill itself is great but the delay is totally unnecessary. It makes the gameplay with totems so clunky. So in terms of clearspeed and partyplay totems just lose hard.

This isn't exclusive to Warchief. I'm on fire totems and taking every placement node in existence made the log pop up out of the ground faster, only to wait what feels like forever to actually acquire a target and fire.

I feel like either there's an inherent delay between a totem being summoned and activating that ignores placement/cast speed, or the 'summoning/not ready' state just lasts much longer than the animation and the animation should be slowed down to match it.

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Alopix wrote:

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Contractor wrote:

Is GGG even reading this? Can you finally fix the "activation" delay? The skill itself is great but the delay is totally unnecessary. It makes the gameplay with totems so clunky. So in terms of clearspeed and partyplay totems just lose hard.

This isn't exclusive to Warchief. I'm on fire totems and taking every placement node in existence made the log pop up out of the ground faster, only to wait what feels like forever to actually acquire a target and fire.

I feel like either there's an inherent delay between a totem being summoned and activating that ignores placement/cast speed, or the 'summoning/not ready' state just lasts much longer than the animation and the animation should be slowed down to match it.

I notice that with my skeleton totems too, feels bad.

Been playing AW facebreaker totems for a little while now. 800% facebreakers, T1 phys roll on a steel ring, voidheart, Abysuss, Legacy meginords, T1 phys roll on onyx ammie.

The damage with both totems out and all buffs (auras, flasks, vaal haste) is insane. 330k dps so far.
Some may say this is OP but honestly I think it is quite balanced since I am squishy as hell. got 5.6 K hp yet can't take too many hits. Pretty much stopped trying to level past 89, because I do messed up map mods (benefits of totems), but the odd hit or two will take me out.

Tried dual core and it was too much. Even single core I had to run around like a madman and avoid all the crap on the floor.

I think It is in a good place. I like that totems are now competitive in end game without having to go crit. The delay is annoying, but honestly, I think it also balances out the insane damage. Hasn't caused me too many problems too far. Just have to play carefully.

I wonder you guys from GGG, how do you arrive to a decision. Because it is good to arrive to a decision, rather than just making it. You see a build with 2m DPS on Youtube and decide to nerf a certain skill or.. how ? I play since the beta rarely commenting, just accepting the changes and moving on... now i will do the the same, but just wondering...

So 2 days ago I was wondering what should i play in the new league... wanted something with no item requirements, some safety... maybe some new skill.. etc... Hey, ancestral warchief. for 2 days i am wondering if i should pick this guy over a shockwave classic totem with the ancestral bond keystone. I didn't saw it on the tooltip, but i like testing stuff, also i like math.. so .. i tested it and it seems like it was with 16 range same as the protector. and i started doing some math... whatever i decided to pick would have been converted all to fire with Avatar of fire, pyre... chernobog, blackgleam etc... cause.. u know... physical can't be scaled further than melee physical support gem.. or lets say conc effect (full life and bloodlust are just, don't want to even start here)... and because how the mitigation of small physical hits works in this game (which i also don't get why is the mechanic as it is)... but ok... so Warchief has 16 range... now in 2.5 it will have 10 range.. 10 is the range of which thе attack is performed, from the spot where the attack takes place u have another 10 radius SPLASH slam that kills stuff around it... flexible. but after 2.5 it seems like not...

"....and the slam will always be centered at melee range away from the totem."

Overall with 16 range (the current one) u hit, than you slam monsters 16 range further, that's a 32 diameter (from the totem in a direction of his choise) ... now shockwave has 20 radius, thats a diameter of 40, which is higher, but it always cast it from itself, so either pick smaller AoE of the attack, but overall higher AoE coverage with Warchief, or go with higher AoE of attack but less AoE coverage with shockwave...

Lets put it that way: S = Pi*r*r (where S is the Coverage of AoE, r is the radius and Pi)
with 10 range and 10 radius of Warchief we now have

S=3.14*10*10
S=314 Pixels or AoE coverage of Warchief

Lets see what the math shows for Shockwave (20 radius)

S=3,14*20*20
S=1256 Pixels or AoE coverage of Shockwave

So, not only the slam will be centered, and its becoming shockwave style, not only the range decrease, along with the flexibility of the skill, but you also decided to nerf it with 10% less damage.

There should be a catch i guess no i decided to take a look at the posibilities of scaling the damage of the warchief and shockwave.. leaving the AoE aside..

So damage of 20lvl shockwave is: 231 to 429 ( i can further scale this if I wear a wand for like 60-80% spell damage or in my case with Avatar even further with some elemental damage affix, also, i can wear my chernobog and dont lack defenses...

Then i take a look of some of the weapons for ancestral warchief, because i will need a good weapon to scale its damage.

THIS: ---> http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Atziri%27s_Disfavour
has base damage of (299 to 314)–(401 to 421)

So now, i pick a weapon 2 HANDED, screw the shield defences and block just to achieve the base DAMAGE of the Shockwave totem, which max is 429....

(299 to 314)–(401 to 421) - This will be the damage with one of the TOP tier 2handed weapons that i start to scale further

------ summarize, I will have less AoE, I will have Either the same damage, lacking the shield, Or less damage of warchief compared to shockwave if i go one handed....

Lets take a look at Warchief again, since its not a spell, it ALSO uses your chance to hit... so not only I will I have less AoE, Also less damage if i keep my shield and use 1 handed, but i will also have to further invest in Accuracy so my Warchief don't miss

Resolute Tehnique you will say, I say don't give a **** about chance to hit, pick Shockwave, and just crit with Ice spear to proc your Elemental Overload to boost the shockwave even more...

So even here WArchief dont have advantage...

Finally i got to the casting/atack speed... these two are affecting the final damage output of both Shockwave and Warchief, how are things going on here ?

1.66 casts per second Shockwave (1/0.60 cast time)
1,34-1,39 atacks per socond iwth Atziri's Disfavour for Warchief

btw i forgot WArchief has 10% less atack speed so... should i do the math again !?


Finally, stop nerfing normally functioning skills because some guys decide to exploit the poison mechanic... just attach it to chaos ONLY rather than physical and it will be all fine... i still can't understand what the poison stuff is doing in the physical section anyway... mines with poison, poison bladefall , poison blade vortex, poison blade furry, poison totems, poison everywhere... just fix the dem broken mechanic, rather than making skills never used... And Legacy Voidheart ?! Seriously ? for 4 ascendancy points u give 20-30% chance to either poison or bleed like assasin or gladiator.... and then a unique ring with 100% poison... AND bleed... i am amused

U fire ----> u ignite
U light ----- > u shock
U cold ----- > u freeze
U Phys ---- > u bleed
U chaos ----- > u poison