Performance Improvements

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sklipnoty wrote:

I have far less driver problems on W10 than W7. Some drivers are even straight up compatible.
http://www.howtogeek.com/219782/is-windows-10-backwards-compatible-with-your-existing-software/

Your personal, limited experience with Windows 10 has nothing to do with Windows 10 as a whole. Fallacy by anecdotal evidence.

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sklipnoty wrote:

Drivers for W10 are not immature. If they were I would be on W7 and I'm not. It's simple as that...

Fallacy by anecdotal evidence. Do you always look at just your own, narrow experience as facts in the rest of the world?

1.) Windows 10 mandatory driver updates can break systems.

2.) The drivers are immature compared to every other version of Windows out there. It's the latest OS for Windows with a different kernel.

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sklipnoty wrote:

I mean if you have to worry about people getting a Dx11 gpu than I think that whole viewpoint is just bad.

Straw man. I never said we have to worry about people getting a certain card. I merely stated that there not everyone has a DX11 compatible card. So if you're a developer, you don't want to isolate a portion of your marketshare, let alone develop something that only a portion of your customers can use.

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sklipnoty wrote:

What I'm saying is simple, I think GGG should invest in 2 things. A) New engine bottom up. B) Dx12 future-proofing.

And thank God you're NOT the developer. PoE is at the end of its lifecycle according to the original announcements, so it's really in maintenance mode. If GGG were to invest in developing a new engine, they'd probably release a new game instead of trying to switch over PoE.

Also, you want DX12 "future-proofing"? LOL! With all of the issues we have right now in PoE, and you want future proofing? /facepalm

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sklipnoty wrote:

The Dx12 performance gain is huge.

Those "huge" gains are mostly on the AMD side, not so much on NVIDIA. Considering the market share belongs to NVIDIA, that's not helping the majority of players out there.

And worse, and non DX12 compatible systems, those gains are worthless as well. So you're taking a sliver of a sliver of the market.

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sklipnoty wrote:

I'm going to refer to an old review of WoW...

And that explains everything about your viewpoint. Enough said.

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Pearsome wrote:

you don't need 1000$ for a gaming PC nowadays

Truth. I'm gaming smoothly (except for the known server issues) on a system from 2009 and a video card from 2011. In other words a Core i7 920 w/ GTX 680 and SSDs. If I sold my system, it wouldn't be worth that much. And a new system that plays PoE can easily be $500 if he built it himself.

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Pearsome wrote:

Maybe buy a computer case and put some glitter on it.

ROFLOL! :-D

Too long but I did read and glad I did. Thanks for the hard work. Hopefully you guys can get the few remaining issues solved.

I have a dream. To have more than 15-20 fps in combat with all the effects that are destroying my FPS currently... Maybe it will be possible once...

But DX11 in 2017? Didn't you meant DX12? If only 11, you should AT MOST roll it out before 2016 autumn. The game currently is very fun to play, but the performance is ruining the experience. You should focus your resources on that before anything else. Especially before making a new fps ruining effects like perandus' gold glowing stuff.

Good news :D

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MarkoszHU wrote:

But DX11 in 2017? Didn't you meant DX12? If only 11, you should AT MOST roll it out before 2016 autumn.

Why? Because the rest of the world isn't buying into Microsoft's Windows 10 and DX12 over-inflated marketing ploys?

Sure, the market will eventually move to Windows 10, but it will be something like 10.2 or 10.3 before that happens. Windows 8 was a failure, and Windows 7 is still supported for security patches until 2020. So the world has another 4 years to switch. PoE might be history by that time.

I just realized that if PoE forces us to use dx11, it might kill that game for linux users, because as far as I know wine doesn't run it well or at all yet. They are working on it, but I'm a pessimist.

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MarkoszHU wrote:

I have a dream. To have more than 15-20 fps in combat with all the effects that are destroying my FPS currently... Maybe it will be possible once...

But DX11 in 2017? Didn't you meant DX12? If only 11, you should AT MOST roll it out before 2016 autumn. The game currently is very fun to play, but the performance is ruining the experience. You should focus your resources on that before anything else. Especially before making a new fps ruining effects like perandus' gold glowing stuff.

DX 12 is currently a sorta experimental API, only for Windows 10, and with nobody actually posting their usage. And its currently in experimental stage for drivers.

DX 11 at the least has some adaption, so there is material to reference when using it.

Vulkan is currently a experimental API backed by various groups. Older GPUs do not support it(questionable driver support for cards older than 2010), and its currently in experimental stage for drivers.

OpenGL 4.0-4.5 is a series of API extensions last updated in 2014. With older GPUs having no support, and newer GPUs not having full support(only partial).


Okay so which one do you choose to back? Remember: PoE do have usage statistics, so they do know what will be widely supported once implemented.

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del_diablo wrote:

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MarkoszHU wrote:

I have a dream. To have more than 15-20 fps in combat with all the effects that are destroying my FPS currently... Maybe it will be possible once...

But DX11 in 2017? Didn't you meant DX12? If only 11, you should AT MOST roll it out before 2016 autumn. The game currently is very fun to play, but the performance is ruining the experience. You should focus your resources on that before anything else. Especially before making a new fps ruining effects like perandus' gold glowing stuff.

DX 12 is currently a sorta experimental API, only for Windows 10, and with nobody actually posting their usage. And its currently in experimental stage for drivers.

DX 11 at the least has some adaption, so there is material to reference when using it.

Vulkan is currently a experimental API backed by various groups. Older GPUs do not support it(questionable driver support for cards older than 2010), and its currently in experimental stage for drivers.

OpenGL 4.0-4.5 is a series of API extensions last updated in 2014. With older GPUs having no support, and newer GPUs not having full support(only partial).


Okay so which one do you choose to back? Remember: PoE do have usage statistics, so they do know what will be widely supported once implemented.

We are talking about 2017 not 2016 don't forget that, by that time DX12 will be better and by the pressure of the community it might be supported on Win7.

"Might" is not good enough for a small dev team, with a self written behemoth of a engine.
If Microsoft was actually good at pushing out their new API, DX12 would be a realistic option, but as the years has shown, Microsoft is garbage at pushing out their new APIs. Best case for DX12 is still a 5% usage share, with weird driver support into 2018.
Its not a silver bullet.
And Path of Exiles dev team wants a silver bullet. The realistic options is still between Vulkan and DX11, and Vulkan could continue to be this weird shoddy thing until 2018 or 2019. Or it might be this weird shoddy thing until Vulkan 2 comes around.

DX11 at the least has commercial exampels of use, finished GPU drivers, reference material and a actual marked share.