Tank in the DPS meta

probably tanks gonna be slightly stronger at 3.0 due to anti crit pantheon

Me to Chris Wilson:

"Hey Chris!

It's me again with something concerning PvP. While your new Pantheon system looks really interesting for PvE, some of them are likely to affect PvP negatively.

Namely the one that prevents crits from dealing extra damage. In PvE, this has pros and cons, but in PvP, it's all pros and it kills build diversity (and even Pantheon options since it's so broken).

I thought I should let you know.

What you did with the inquisitor ascendancy for PvP was greatly appreciated and I think it's important to keep in mind the differences between PvE and PvP and to balance things accordingly (even if it means not enabling certain things in PvP at all).

I hope you'll consider this and that your team finds a bit of time to asses the power of the Pantheon essences in PvP.

Also, should your team ever need to consult someone when it comes to PvP balance, I would be happy to help. Free of charge. I work in game design/balance and oversee a QA team of 20 guys and I've spent the last 3 years actively taking part in PvP in Path of Exile.

Have a good 3.0 launch!"

Chris' response:

"Thanks for the mail! I have forwarded it to the person who both does Pantheon and PvP design, though I can't promise they'll be able to reply soon.

I'll bear in mind your kind offer to help out consulting (in the case that we decide to engage).

Best regards,
Chris"


There might be hope that it doesn't make it to live!

Was expecting a robotic response from him that I occasionally get from him. Some people said Qarl might be another good person to send messages regarding any balance or programming stuff.

I can't believe you thanked Chris for completely destroying inquisitor from competitive pvp. Making inevitable judgment do nothing was a piss poor balance decision, and incredibly short sighted.

Obliterating entire ascendancies from functioning competitively isn't balance. It's bullshit catering to big supporter RMT crybabies who were QQing about their 300ex 100% conversion talismans and/or who don't give a fuck about anything other than staying on top with their established builds. And all it did was kick the ball down the road a little since GGG added so many sources of global and targeted penetration since then, getting above 75% penetration has become trivial.

GGG should have given inevitable judgment reduced effectiveness in pvp, if anything (really they should have waited to see what effect the brass dome had instead of nerfing inquisitor in the same patch that brass dome was added). In fact with the pantheon power (and buffs to the deceiver belt + brass dome + all the other penetration added), the old inevitable judgment wouldn't be that strong anymore.

For fuck sakes, you have pathfinder able to get 56% elemental penetration which they can stack with the penetration gem + other things, with no condition to crit. Other ascendancies are able to get penetration so it's not at all objectively balanced for inquisitor to get nothing.

Greatly fucking appreciated. MY ASS.

muh crit spark

Also, what do you care, you have Scorching Ray totems.

We're talking about the difference between multiple points and a degree of investment vs one ascendancy point, my god. The nerf is fine, otherwise Pathfinder and Inquisitor would be the two douchebag classes. I thank him too.

"

Simplesim45 wrote:

Namely the one that prevents crits from dealing extra damage. In PvE, this has pros and cons, but in PvP, it's all pros and it kills build diversity (and even Pantheon options since it's so broken).

Bullshit detector over 9000. "Take no extra damage from critical strikes if you have taken a critical strike recently" has cons in PvE? What are the cons in PvE? Isn't it also all pros in PVE?

You know what kills build diversity? Making a fucking ascendancy do nothing.

Edit: The con is opportunity cost. It's the same con in pve and pvp.

If GGG keeps soul of lunaris as-is, it's still going to be competing in PvP with soul of the brine king for anti-stun (frees up amulet/ring slot), and we'll still see dodge stackers take soul of lunaris, and even soul of arakaali will be popular because of how prevalent damage over time is in pvp (blight, scorching ray, necro degen, decay).

We don't see anyone using brass dome now (we see more people using incandescent heart). Jorge is 1 shotting everyone with flameblast without crit (same with glacial miner). You'll still be able to 1 shot everyone with a single crit bear trap. I'm not at all concerned over soul of lunaris.

"

Vhlad wrote:

"

Simplesim45 wrote:

Namely the one that prevents crits from dealing extra damage. In PvE, this has pros and cons, but in PvP, it's all pros and it kills build diversity (and even Pantheon options since it's so broken).

Bullshit detector over 9000. "Take no extra damage from critical strikes if you have taken a critical strike recently" has cons in PvE? What are the cons in PvE? Isn't it also all pros in PVE?

You know what kills build diversity? Making a fucking ascendancy do nothing.

Edit: The con is opportunity cost. It's the same con in pve and pvp.

If GGG keeps soul of lunaris as-is, it's still going to be competing in PvP with soul of the brine king for anti-stun (frees up amulet/ring slot), and we'll still see dodge stackers take soul of lunaris, and even soul of arakaali will be popular because of how prevalent damage over time is in pvp (blight, scorching ray, necro degen, decay).

We don't see anyone using brass dome now (we see more people using incandescent heart). Jorge is 1 shotting everyone with flameblast without crit (same with glacial miner). You'll still be able to 1 shot everyone with a single crit bear trap. I'm not at all concerned over soul of lunaris.

I'm saying this from an informed game design perspective. Not as a personal feeling towards a build.

People not using brass dome is because it reduces your movement speed, has no life or ES and uses up your chest slot. Having a perk like that pantheon is a completely different story.

Just like inquisitor's one node that ignores all resistances. It's too much power for too little investment. It makes sense in PvE (which it was balanced around) because monsters don't always have 75+ resistances. If getting several nodes added up to ignoring 75-100% of max resists, it would make more sense. Or if that one node ignored maybe at most 50% of max res(in PvP). They went all out and removed its functionality because they just don't have the manhours to put into balancing it properly (or even the will to do it), but better that than what it was before anyway. As if you didn't know how GGG worked in that sense tho. They've made meta shit completely obsolete in PvE so many times by now.

Obviously, the easy argument to make here is penetration. But penetration has to come from many sources. It's why a flask like wise oak is a little bit overtuned in terms of penetration. Getting 75%-85% penetration, at the time of the change to inquisitor, took significantly more investment than just 1 node on your ascendancy tree.

You're glossing over the fact that inevitable judgment is contingent on crit. It didn't take one point to get 75% pen - it took massive investment in crit as well. And all of that investment in crit gets ignored from brass dome or mitigated by the new pantheon power or indomitable + belt of the deceiver (which is quite excellent now, giving 10% more damage via taunt).

Meanwhile elementalist gets 25% pen trivially, which they can stack with sambars, pen gem, wise oak, etc to reach 100%+ pen, all while not being vulnerable to crit mitigation. Pathfinder gets 95% from basic gear + flasks + gem, or 130%+ with more focus.

The investment in the present state of the game to get reliable crit for 75% pen on a templar is similar, while having the significant downside of seeing all or most of that crit investment negated.

I just can't fathom being thankful for the present state of the inquisitor in pvp. GGG shit their pants there.

"

Vhlad wrote:

You're glossing over the fact that inevitable judgment is contingent on crit. It didn't take one point to get 75% pen - it took massive investment in crit as well. And all of that investment in crit gets ignored from brass dome or mitigated by the new pantheon power or indomitable + belt of the deceiver (which is quite excellent now, giving 10% more damage via taunt).

Meanwhile elementalist gets 25% pen trivially, which they can stack with sambars, pen gem, wise oak, etc to reach 100%+ pen, all while not being vulnerable to crit mitigation. Pathfinder gets 95% from basic gear + flasks + gem, or 130%+ with more focus.

The investment in the present state of the game to get reliable crit for 75% pen on a templar is similar, while having the significant downside of seeing all or most of that crit investment negated.

I just can't fathom being thankful for the present state of the inquisitor in pvp. GGG shit their pants there.

Yep. Hence my notable "at the time of the change to inquisitor".

There are a lot of uniques that have been changed before and have had their changes rendered useless/obsolete as new mechanics and items made their way into the game.

But when the change was made, it was for the better. Despite how short lived that "better" was.

It's also why I stated that the inquisitor node should instead have been set to ignoring 50% of max res at most. It would make it relevant while not over the top. But like I said, GGG isn't willing to invest any time or manhours into play testing or balancing PvP.

I agree that it was a horrible decision to completely destroy inquisitor.. I mean seriously, inquisitor was barely in the top5 broken mechanics back then. There's just that much broken shit.

Even if they reverted the change, inquisitor wouldn't see much play just because pathfinder, wise oak, elementalist and all the anti-crit mechanics exist.

I mean heck my elementalist has 81% global pen and I don't even have to invest into or rely on crits. Why would I go pre-nerfed inquisitor?