Ancestral Protector

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sidtherat wrote:

anyone found a single reason why use this skill? the Warchief is better in EVERY way imaginable..

Warchief gives more damage while protector gives more attack speed. Builds that benefit from attacking faster like buzzsaw builds will of course use the protector over warchief. Coc builds trigger their attacks more often and so on.

this is 'theory'

reality is that you wont get any bonus from this attack speed as the 'leash' range is short and both build archetypes mentioned are movement builds.

the bonus it gives to the player is comparable between Protector and Warchief but the latter has INCREDIBLE damage output. and this is pretty wrong - why AOE totem deals MORE damage as well? the single target one should deal higher dps. but it seems that even with totems AOE just deserves to be better in every possible way

Ancestral Protector has higher 'original DPS', close to 160% at level 20 with bonus factored in.
Ancestral Warchief reaches 141% with the corresponding bonus.

Ancestral Warchief gets better when you factor Concentrated Effect in.
If you're using it as a boss killer, it's better in any way than its Protector brother.
If you're using it as a map cleaner, it's so/so.

As mentionned earlier, you could use 2 Warchiefs + 1 Protector in a Hierophant build. You're gaining ... 8.5% DPS this way (discounting Area Bonus damage from tree/stuff/quality on gems but counting Concentrated Effect) at the cost of an additionnal 4-link.
DPS gain with 3+ totems, DPS loss otherwise.

The attack speed gain helps with kiting and applying on hit effects aswell.
Ancestral Protector has its uses. Not as glaring as Ancestral Warchief's but still.

that is another bit of theory

in practice the AP is worse in EVERY possible way:

- it is a single target. single target abilities are worthless in current state of the game
- it has short range. ancestral warchief has A LOT better coverage (even with Conc)
- it requires melee splash to even function properly. 2 links vs 1 link
- the implicit bonus (aspd) might be good for 3totem build but for a normal melee build it means nothing: you deal better dps but if you can facetank your target and deal dps then you do not need totem (as casting it etc takes from your dps time). if you cannot facetank you need something you can run from while it remains functional. AP does not work like that - it ceases to attack very quickly after you move away from it.

id take A Warchief in 2 link over AP in 4 link ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. heck, i most probably would pick nonlinked..

Totem builds are usually pretty clunky (less so since ascendancy but still).
What i wrote was about using Ancestral Totems as an additionnal bonus to your character when you need it most : bosses.
Against bosses, you don't really need AoE (you have your proper AoE anyway)

An other thing i haven't thought about :
For projectile melee skills, namely Molten Strike, Frost Blades, Lightning Strike, Spectral Throw and Wild Strike, any skill that has a melee and a non melee component, Ancestral Protector is way better for DPS since Warchief only buffs the initial hit. Unless you're going with Melee Physical Damage support on these skills (hint : you shouldn't)

Ancestral Totems are either treated as self buffs (which can deal damage if needed) or for a proper build. Their acquisition range has been hugely buffed. In order for them to stop attacking, they need to either be dead/stunned/frozen or you to be offscreened.

I'd say that Warchief is way better than Protector still (due to being AoE tagged which allows the use of Concentrated Effect), but the latter has its uses.

If you don't want to get the maximum of your character, always pick Warchief.
If you do, Protector can be better, some times.

ive been playing melee for like 4 years now. and in my opinion the melee bonus from the totem is irrelevant. placing time is not irrelevant and typical map clear is always faster with pure dps as compared to dps interrupted by placing totems. melee totems have long activation times and short leash.

it is the damage that the totem can deal on its own that matters. and the biggest difference between two totems in question is range: warchief has faaaar longer range and reach while being AOE to boot (conc effect 50% more damage multiplied by 45% more from melee phys on a 3 link means insane dps)

you place totem to deal damage while you run around. the melee aspd or damage it grants are wasted while on the run.

on a 3 totem build id use 2 warchiefs and decoy totem vs bosses and 3 warchiefs during general clear. from the efficiency standpoint there is not a single valid reason to use ancestral protector. it has zero redeeming fearures and it is pure sh.. when compared in real applications.

any ancestral protector build will be stronger and by a lot after simply replacing AP with AW. any build.

Apparently Curse on Hit doesn't work with Ancestral Protector, is this intentional?

It actually says "Summons a Totem which uses this skill" on the gem though. I don't see any reason it shouldn't work. And non-hit gems are not supposed to be linkable with Curse on Hit in the first place, so the game considers totem placement skills to hit. And tooltip displays a DPS value, so it's definitely the linked skill that hits.

This skill needs complete rework, otherwise it will always be worse version of Warchief. Maybe the "protector" should actually protect, for example taunt the enemies it hits.