Knockback

I'm building a puncture bow character (level ) and have a few more detailed questions (it concern both knockback and puncture, that's why I chose to post this here). (should this be in a mechanic thread or something ? too much threads...)

If I interpret correctly what you all say, please confirm that all of this points are correct :
The bleeding of puncture on a knockbacked ennemy occures only in the small frame it is knockbacked.
It is not proportional to the movement speed, it deals the same amount of damage over time regardless of the distance traveled.
So the damage of the moving done by knockback should be quite low on impact.
And then, wikia and some forum posts say that puncture and knockback apply on every ennemies hit, be it pierced, chained or forked. An ennemy can be knockbacked multiple time in one attack by being pierced then chained and with lmp/gmp.

And now for some new questions I didn't find (did not do the full research as topics get older and no filter on search include «search only topic with staff response», but I remember seeing one... strange...) :
An ennemy stunned will still move and take move-bleeding part damage ?
An ennemy stuck by terrain or bear trap will still attempt to «move» and get the move-bleeding part damage ?

The underlying strategy is : is it better to perma stun-knockback lock ennemies with chain-puncture and projectile weakness ? or is it better to knockback-punture ennemies, let them move back the distance they recede before launching the next shot and remove the chain / pierce / stun ?


Edit : Does the knockback chance from the king of the hill bow keystone (on critical hit) and knockback support gem / projectile weakness apply independently ? meaning it could double knockback ? Do you have 54+24 = 78% chance to knockback with 20quality/20level knockback and projectile weakness or 54+(100-54)*24 ? does it roll with the crit chance (meaning 22% crit chance (with keystone passive) will have 54+24+22(+) >= 100% chance to knockback) ?

Edit 2 : So much posts that I can't find... I just so a post saying knockback don't work on boss... but I'm sure I saw a staff post that say the opposite. It's pretty easy to confirm though...
While I'm at it... Same question about stun for frozen ennemies and dot over distance for chill ennemies, in other words : frozen ennemies are forced to move ? chilled ennemies are loosing life at same rate than normal ones ?

I wish knockback would be in general a lot stronger. You have skills and gems that are magic and cast apocalypse over the whole screen but brute force knockback is just utterly weak compared to any other skill/mechanic. It´s sad.

Could be a melee only focused mechanic but methinks the designers fear it to be op in the end.

On a personal note when i read knockback first i thought of 5 meter knockback like really pushing enemy’s to the walls. Well i was disappointed. =)

a 12 unit pushback would be less confusing than a 2 unit pushback.
5 meters, i'm guessing, is more like 25 or 30 units.

Knockback is not a main mechanism, like crit or stun. It as a niche and a bonus.
I currently have the fending cluster that give 15% chance to knockback on hit and 30% increase knockback distance with a knockback support gem and projectile weakness and should have king of the hill in a few level (40/48).
It has not a big impact on my playstyle, but it's walking on the edge... with KotH I will have enough knockback to pratically always keep enemies at distance.

The thing is, fending is in the strenght area so it's easier to use it with strenght base weapon... that are all melee.
In this, knockback is useless, ennemies are still on you and projectile cannot be dodge at so close range.

There is also 3 clusters that add knockback on hit, one for bow, one for wand and one for staves.
If knockback support gem is not powerfull enough alone, and fending cluster is not worth it alone, it's logically because you should combine them.

If knockback got stronger, you need to balance the builds that combine support/fending/critical/other so they would not be overpowered.

In my opinion, wand and bow have projectile weakness, but need to have the three stat and walk arround the passive skill tree. Wand synergies with critical strike chance, so you knockback more. Bow synergies with attack speed, so you knockback more. Instead of upping knockback, making the node more accessible is a better way to up the mechanism.
Staves... well, you need accuracy and critical chance, and you could combine with sweep or leap slam... didn't make a build with it, but I think knockback would not be enough to be usefull.
The problem I see is... Staves has no niche ? staves passive nodes give them block chance, stun duration, knockback on critical... and affixe can give you spell damage... At least, Hammer blow, Pure brutality and Fending cluster are very near.

I would not say it need an up until I've made a wand and staff build and finish my bow ones.

What are your build and gems ? I'm curious because it seems pretty decent with me for now, I don't see a direct need for a knockback boost, and if you guys have already a staff or wand build I could rely on, that would be great.

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beertruck wrote:

Knockback probably needs reworking if it's going to be useful. I was underwhelmed by the knockback on Leap Slam, so I added the Knockback gem to see if it made a difference. It raised the chance of it occurring, but knockback itself is really weak. The mobs bounce a half step away from you for a few milliseconds, then warp right back.

I then respecced into the knockback node for Marauder, which gives 40% increased knockback distance, and I was not able to really notice any difference. Mobs just rubberband away for maybe half a second and continue as if nothing happened. No real help for crowd control (tested as melee in middle of chaos packs). This could be a useful skill, but the knockback distance would need to be larger, and the mobs should be out of action for a short time, instead of warping back instantly.

Have you tried it with any other spells than melee? If not then you need to reconsider your wording when it comes to the gem being "useful". There is more to consider than the length of the knockback itself. And melee isn't the only thing to consider when it comes to this gem. I won't spoil what's good with this gem. I will let you figure it out yourself.

BringYourFriends

Is there a way to make the knockback gem supported with the cast on hit gem when casting spells? I had an incinerate build planned, and was sad to see the knockback effect not applying curses.

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Commando125 wrote:

Is there a way to make the knockback gem supported with the cast on hit gem when casting spells? I had an incinerate build planned, and was sad to see the knockback effect not applying curses.

a curse cannot knockback, but your incinerate definitely will trigger knockback... and very often...

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soul4hdwn wrote:

yes it'll place foes out of melee range, but not enough to remove need to kit, unless you have awkwardly high attack rate with 100% knockback.

If you use it with incinerate nothing can get into melee range its quite funny watching Oak fly back through the air when he jumps at you.

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maxor wrote:

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soul4hdwn wrote:

yes it'll place foes out of melee range, but not enough to remove need to kit, unless you have awkwardly high attack rate with 100% knockback.

If you use it with incinerate nothing can get into melee range its quite funny watching Oak fly back through the air when he jumps at you.

when was this quote because yes that is definitely possible =p. it wasn't nearly as possible long ago with just bows, but close via 5 attacks per second.

Does knockback work on bosses?
Do they have any kind of resistance to it at all?

I want to make a ranger that will pin the boss to the wall with max knockback chance and attack speed.