Heavy Strike

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MCSMvsME wrote:

I agree with everybody saying it must be reworked. How about replacing knockback with a long-range splash so it will hit all mobs in a line in front of you?

Yeah like a super effective ground slam.

No, just remove knockback.

no need to remove knockback anymore

This skill is in a bit of a poor spot at the moment. At first, it was one of my favorites... But the more I deconstruct it... Just what *IS* it good for? It's a single-target skill, which as the game has proven to us, is NOT a viable category; it has to stand on merits once you remove that consideration of being "single-target specialist."

• Is it the knockback? Not really, given that Leap Slam really does that job better.
• Is it the stun? No, we're better off with Ground Slam; that'll do more damage to side targets, with better reach, AND for less mana cost. (and save you a link!)

Really, it's supposed to be the damage; barring the addition of (cooldown limited) Vigilant Strike, it had the highest base damage ratio, of 150%. Still, in exchange for being single target, that's not much.

More damage outright wouldn't work, either; earlier in leveling the skill works well, where you don't need the ability to clear a whole screen at once. (given most of the screen will be empty) I'd rather see GGG break from "all melee skills increase their scale by 1.2% of their base each level" here. A stronger scale towards the lategame would make this a viable option overall that wouldn't feel watery with melee splash thown on. Instead of a weak 150-186% scale, perhaps make it +3% per level, for a scale of 150-210%.

This would keep it more consistent in feel through the game; early on it will be powerful enough to still one-shot most white mobs, while later on it can better justify that you're effectively kiting yourself. (Empire's Grasp should remain a good OPTION, a 20c unique shouldn't be MANDATORY just to use a skill you pick up at level 1)

I'm also wondering what the point of knockback is for heavy strike. I'm currently running it on my Marauder for the single target lowered stun threshold but the added knockback makes it extremely unappealing.

Can we get an explanation from a dev as to what the intended purpose of added knockback is for melee? If knockback was intended as a drawback for the skill, then it is working as intended. Having to take a step after every attack is incredibly annoying and massively lowers your overall DPS. I would actually prefer the complete opposite of knockback on the skill - root. Actually replacing all forms of knockback with root (even a duration of 0.1 seconds) makes more sense to me as it is still useful for ranged builds.

I would recommend adding some passive nodes to decrease the effectiveness of or remove completely the knockback effect from your attacks. There are already a few nodes in the strength side of the tree for adding more knockback, but why any melee character would grab those nodes, god only knows. They would make more sense over in the dex side of the tree since it's actually useful for projectile builds.

TLDR: for melee, knockback is a drawback; state that it's an intended drawback for HS or remove it / add nodes to negate it

Alternatively they could change knock back to a stun or short speed debuff on hit targets.

Question to those who are informed:

I have a tank build with a 4 slot open for a single target. Right now using Heavy strike>Melee damage>Fire Damage>Faster Attacks. It is faster then my AoE atm in killing bosses.

But would I be more effective with this instead: Viper Strike>Melee Physical>Faster Attacks>Void Manipulation?

For reference, My AoE of choice is Sunder, and with my build I tend to end up Facetanking most bosses (a.k.a. I don't spend much time running around while poison would tick bosses life down)

Keep in mind that most of my passive tree boost either physical damage or melee damage, so outside of the gems there is no real passive elemental/chaos damage boosts. thoughts?

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lolozori wrote:

no need to remove knockback anymore

So...I actually threw on a pair of those. aside from the sheer fun of watching a boss get confused and wiggle back and forth...I was surprised at how effective Heavy strike became once you removed the KB.

Which leads back to the main issue...we shouldn't need a limited and eccentric unique item just to make a main skill effective. Viper strike is effective on it's own, and enhanced by anything you add to it. double strike? same deal. Heavy Strike is the only one that you need a broke unique in order to make it function.

Not to mention that the unique really has nothing else going for it really. high Armour, that's about it. It's obviously designed for niche builds, and shouldn't be required to make Heavy strike work well.

Sure is fun to watch the bosses wiggle back and forth though.

changing the KB into a higher chance to stun would be all that's needed. Or, for flavor, make the increased stun (reduced stun threshold) work double on rare and unique mobs.

I guess I was the only one who cycloned inside mob's bodies with high stun build to prevent knockback and spam heavy strike like that..

Even after the pathetic 5% buff to this skill it's still crap. It suffers from the same problem every non AoE melee skill does. I'm not referring to the AoE aspect or multiple targets. It's the sheer fact you can use another "more" multiplier gem in Concentrated effect. You can take any of the current AoE skills and use them as a 1 size fits all, stronger single target then any "true" single target skill plus hit multiple targets freely. Think Lacerate, Earthquake, Ice crash...all straight crap on Heavy strike, Double strike and the alike.

The knockback is a handicap and using Empires grasp is sacrificing a good rare set of gloves just to make the skill suck a little less. At max chance to deal double damage using WoE jewels, helmet enchant + the same tool tip damage x-x, Lacerate/Earthquake and Ice crash kill twice as fast as single target skills. Even as a super early skill it sucks compared to all your other options. Even if it's just a place holder now a days so you can upgrade to something better within a few levels...why? For example Fireball is as early a skill and that thing is absolutely fucken retarded good right now without all the work/handicaps on the backside. You need to re-think this skill or implement something that helps non AoE melee skills....again this isn't about AoE nor Melee splash. It's about the fact AoE skills > single target skills .......as single target skills.

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