Cleave

I use cleave a lot and really enjoy it. My best ever melee character uses it.
I'm sure things could be improved, but for now I'm doing OK at tier 13-14 maps. I'm going to take on tier 15 when my Harbinger toon slows down. At full dps I can top 100K. Bleed explosions just "pop" mods.

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ChanBalam wrote:

I'm sure things could be improved

Pretty sure, yes.

Why Dream Fragments?
What's the point of overflowing chalice?
Why Bismuth flask?
Why faster attacks in the 6L?
Why faster attacks in your boots?

100k DpS is cute. ;)

So it has been a while since cleave got some feedback.

Backgrund: I'm using it on a 'sword & board' tank character with a 1h Axe.

Items:


These Elder gloves allow me to have Cleave on a '7 Link' using ailments (poison/bleed).


Damage
Cleave's damage seems to be very average. On my character (pure phys/ailment scaling)it is outperformed in single target by Double Strike, Heavy Strike, Frenzy (with charges) and Blade Flurry. It outperforms Cyclone, Earthquake, Sunder and Reave in damage. But...

AOE
Cleave's AOE is disgusting. Its base AOE makes any percentage scaling void. Even with 2 threshold Jewels and surrounded by enemies. Furthermore Cleaves attack angle is only 180° so for a full 360° clear you'll have to attack at least twice. So if you use the threshold jewel: you'll attack 180° with ~32 AOE - kill a few mobs on the first hit and then attack 360° with ~26 AOE. Congratulations, you can now hunt down what's left. This means Cleave is outperformed by any other AOE melee skill when it comes to clear speed. (except maybe Ground Slam)

Animation
Generally the animation seems fine. Cleave + shield interaction is a bit weird since the character will throw the shield back like a counterweight. This becomes especially dumb with high attack speed as the shield will be all over the place. When dual wielding the animation looks very good.

Threshold Jewels
Overwhelming Odds is decent. The AOE part is, as stated above, neglectable. Fortify on hit is very good though and was the reason I decided to play Cleave in the first place.

Conclusion
Cleave has a niche use in weird tank builds. It is outperformed by almost every elemental melee attack and compares best to Lacerate and Cyclone, both skills have significantly better clear though. Personally i like Cleaves simplicity, the damage is fine. Its AOE, when supplemented with something else (bleedsplosions, Abyssal Cry etc.) is tolerable. % AOE scaling has basically no effect since its base AOE is so small and only 180°.

Suggestions
I would like to see weapon range make a comeback on Cleave since it seems like a very intuitive interaction, this could also help with the lackluster AOE.

I too would like to see cleave get some AOE love. Started a dual wield, Ahn's might, Cleave Champion. May switch to Reave tbh, once I hit maps, because the AOE is terrible. Since I'll be using Tabula, I can just switch out Reave for Cleave, so I can have fortify on hit for bosses (I'm lazy).

With 100% chance to poison on hit, does dual wield cleave apply 2 poisons per attack, or just one?

Animation-wise, this skill would look much better if consecutive swings went back and forth instead of always swinging in the same direction IMO.

Great skill after the buff. Couldn't have asked for more. It feels better and better the more flat phys and radius it gets each level. Mapping feels very nice with the big sweeping animation.

The animation looks like we are attacking with a scythe. Looks very good. I like it a lot. It's addicting :)
Please add a real big scythe mtx animation for this :)

I am testing different supports but currently this is what i like the most for a crit cleave berserker.

Cleave really need an update because it suffer his oldness.

The first problem of Cleave is his AoE, and his damage.

This is currently the description of Cleave : "The character swings their weapon (or both weapons if dual wielding) in an arc, damaging monsters in an area in front of them".

So I propose a simple change, have a scaling on Melee Strike Range like have Cyclone :
- 8% increased Area of Effect per 1 additional Melee Strike Range.

For his damage I propose two options :

1 - Increase the Attack Speed Multiplier from 80% to 85%.
This change it's simple but it we really help with Cleave speed.

2 - Change the Cleave mechanic. Simple, Cleave it's an arc so damage should scale with the arc area like Shock Nova.
- The arc will be divided in two parts. If we hit with the max range of the arc, we deal more damage.

With these changes, positioning we'll be important and reward the player. We have better clear with the increased AoE but also logic, for me it should really scale with Melee Strike Range. That's all for me!

The visual effect rework is terrible, not only it actually looks worse and lower quality than the previous one but at least with the old one you had the illusion of having some AoE since you basically couldn't tell the range from the effect being so subtle. Now you can tell the range and it's fucking tiny let me tell you but on top of that if you use the threshold jewel then it doesn't even reflect the real AoE you have so it's actually completely useless. The disconnect between the area you see with the skill effect and the actual AoE feels awful.

I dont like the animation. It is the same with Reap. Melee skills should have instant animations. This sweeping animation makes me feel like i am hitting too slow. Also, I don't know the area of effect of the skill. I am having this problem with all area effective skills. The area of effect of the skills should be indicated with a clear line. I want to know how far my hits will reach.