(3.2) [Lighty] 2H RT Cyclone: Dope for Beast League & Lab™

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Archimtiros wrote:

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mrpetrov wrote:

Archimitros, thanks for your prompt reply about the crit version. I would love to make a build around Doomsower, as that was my diamond supporter unique, as designed by my buddy victordoom! Victordoom was always looking for more 2h love from ggg, so maybe this is where it can shine!

Absent blood magic, is mana leech gem going to be necessary for a super high ias crit cyclone build?

Ah, well thank you very much for your support of the game, and thank VictorDoom for his great design.

Doomsower is a decent choice for Cyclone; the attack speed makes it strong in terms of raw DPS and the increased AoE is useful. Unfortunately the main thing holding it back is that Cyclone doesn't benefit from the Extra Fire Damage, as Cyclone is not a red gem (only the attack's color matters), though I really wish they'd change it to melee gems.

That's kind of where it falls short though. While the increased AoE is nice, it's not nearly as strong as the free link that Blood Magic provides. It doesn't even compete with the increased AoE gem (15% v 20-39%), although the two effects would stack, or completely make up for the disadvantage imposed by Concentrated Effect (25% less). Ultimately the free link is simply worth more.

I'm not exactly sure yet where Hiltless comes in yet. It's weaker than Doomsower and lacks the attack speed, but it's increased weapon range is actually slightly better than Doomsower's increased AoE*.
* Starting with Two-handed Swords base range of 6, +2 for Master of the Arena = 8 * 1.15 for Doomsower's AoE = 9.2 + 2 character size for a total range of 11.2 (I believe this is rounded down to 11).
* On the other hand, Hiltless would have a range of 6+2+2= 10 + 2 = 12.

Lastly, Hiltless provides 2.5% increased chance to Crit and a free link from Blood Magic, which Doomsower has no response to. Regarding Blood Magic, since fixed mana costs in 2.1.0, you can get away with running Cyclone off mana quite easily without investing much in leech, however this will require you to drop a Arctic Armor or use one of the aura reservation-reducing helmet enchants from the Labyrinth, since we normally reserve 100%. While definitely an option, I don't think it's worth doing.

TLDR: For Cyclone Doomsower is decent, but I'd rank it below Hiltless and Hezmana, though it's a decent choice if you don't have access to either.

Added a crit cyclone - staff/sword section to the guide. Its in its infancy but will be updated more over the next few days leading up to the release of patch notes.

Hi Lighty, wondering which class and ascendancy youll be recommending for the upcoming prophecy league? Really keen on trying out this build for hardcore. Thanks in advance

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OnyxDaMan wrote:

Hi Lighty, wondering which class and ascendancy youll be recommending for the upcoming prophecy league? Really keen on trying out this build for hardcore. Thanks in advance

I would still recommend Champion. Despite the fortify effect nerf and the lackluster 7-8th points from the end game lab is still the most constant and tanky.

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Lighty wrote:

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OnyxDaMan wrote:

Hi Lighty, wondering which class and ascendancy youll be recommending for the upcoming prophecy league? Really keen on trying out this build for hardcore. Thanks in advance

I would still recommend Champion. Despite the fortify effect nerf and the lackluster 7-8th points from the end game lab is still the most constant and tanky.

Alright, thank you very much~

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OnyxDaMan wrote:

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Lighty wrote:

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OnyxDaMan wrote:

Hi Lighty, wondering which class and ascendancy youll be recommending for the upcoming prophecy league? Really keen on trying out this build for hardcore. Thanks in advance

I would still recommend Champion. Despite the fortify effect nerf and the lackluster 7-8th points from the end game lab is still the most constant and tanky.

Alright, thank you very much~

Piggybacking on this, Champion is definitely the most consistent Ascendancy with a good mix of damage, defense and mobility. The free gem especially provides a large damage increase, especially while leveling. However, Slayer and Juggernaut are also pretty strong contenders depending on how you play.

Juggernaut is probably the strongest defensively, with potential for permanent Immortal Call and max Endurance Charges, but it's much weaker offensively than the other choices (sans Crit build).

Slayer provides a lot of extra damage, increased AoE, 20% culling, semi-permanent Onslaught, excessive amounts of leech and Bleed immunity; all of which are great for Cyclone, but it's predicated on moving and killing quickly. If you're into speed farming, it's probably the way to go.

Berserker is the only one I would actively avoid for Hardcore. While it can certainly be played to great effect due to the large damage bonuses and Savage Hit leech, it's a gamble, as the increased damage taken makes it more dangerous to play.

re: Juggernaut

Apparently Undeniable has been nerfed down to 1% IAS per 200 Accuracy down from 100*. Still, it's quite strong, just not insanely ridiculous and I think a Crit Cyclone build could work out quite well with it.

Ideally, I think Daresso's Defiance would work perfectly with the build, ensuring effectively 100% uptime on Endurance Charges and by extension semi-permanent Immortal Call and Onslaught as well as eliminating the need for Warlord's Mark, opening the door for another curse such as Assassin's Mark or Vulnerability.

After that, Abyssus for extra damage, as it's main drawback should be nullified by Immortal Call, and maybe Hinekora's Sight for extra accuracy and anti-Blind. I'm torn on using unique crit gloves or the prophecy ones; while the bonuses are definitely strong, the build is already using a number of uniques, so it may start to struggle with stats.

Still not sure exactly how it would compare against the top three (Champion/Slayer/Berserker), but I really like the strong synergy it creates.

*No other changes to our Ascendancies from what I've seen.

Thanks for making such an awesome guide.
I just started playing PoE as of two weeks ago after finding a good beginners guide for Arc Witch.
With Prophecy coming I wanted to try something new, so thank you for the awesome guide as I'll be playing it in the prophecy league!

That said, your formatting is really hard as a newer player to keep track of (OR at least myself.)
To prevent myself from having to look up each gem location/build info/etc as I leveled I made myself a simple infographic to "get started" on hitting the 70s in the new league.

I don't know if you or anyone else would have any use for it but just in case:

Hey there, I don't think Daressos Defiance would work with IC because you lose all charges when you get hit. However, it could work if you plan on manually casting it with Enduring cry before every mob pack which would be annoying to do.

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GreasyGrovelingGoofs wrote:

Hey there, I don't think Daressos Defiance would work with IC because you lose all charges when you get hit. However, it could work if you plan on manually casting it with Enduring cry before every mob pack which would be annoying to do.

I know from experience that it has worked in the past, though I cannot say for certain if it still works as I've not played with Daresso's Defiance in quite some time. I suspect that skill gems (in this case CWDT-IC) take priority over effects on gear, even though confirming a hit technically happens before calculating damage.

Edit: Seems the wiki agrees with me: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Daresso%27s_Defiance. I think I have one laying around somewhere on standard, so I'll try to test.

In theory, you should be generating max Endurance charges so often, both from getting kills and getting hit (not sure on the order of operations there yet), that you'll be able to maintain high uptime on both IC and Onslaught. This is of course very much a WIP, as we won't know exactly how mechanics play out until they go live.

Edit 2: Confirmed, CWDT-IC takes priority over Onslaught, so your endurance charges do count toward Immortal Call duration while using Daresso's Defiance. Obviously there is some overlap; since Immortal Call has a cooldown, you should still be putting Charges towards Onslaught as well.

Depending on kill speed, it's also completely possible to be hit twice in succession for less than the CWDT amount, first expending all charges toward Onslaught and then triggering CWDT without any charges. However, I think this will be mitigated by 2 factors:
1) The 20% chance to gain a (max) Endurance Charges when hit granted by Unflinching (not sure whether or not this will take effect before or after Daresso's Defiance however), and
2) Using a L1 CWDT/IC. Although a mid or high level IC for increased duration might sound better, Juggernaut has access to enough Endurance Charges, and with Daresso's always keeping you at maximum, to forgo the need for the increased duration, and of course the increased duration support gem is always useful.

So while there might be a small overlap in which you are hit at 0 charges, it should be minimal (~2s). As long as you're getting kills, you should have an effectively permanent Immortal Call.

Of course if you want to forgo this chance with Darresso's Defiance, Blasphemy - Warlord's Mark works just as effectively, albeit at the cost of Mana and Onslaught. FWIW, I just really like the idea of using Daresso's Defiance; I find it to be a fascinating unique and I think it's suitably ironic that a Duelist chest piece is so strong for Juggernaut, as it allows them to effectively ignore armor, which would otherwise be a defining characteristic of the sub-class. It also had quite an interesting design process, which can be read about here: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1108781/page/4#p9415644

This kind of build is a bit demanding for a fresh league. Like most of the crit builds. I think I will go with a standard 2h cycloner. They tend to be more reliable and effective all around.