Eternal Orbs

"

cgexile wrote:

Games like this bank on people's hoarding disorder. Most people have this psychological problem but it's the severity that differs from person to person. That's why there are permanent leagues so we can retain and accumulate. A game that does not take advantage of this human weakness is a game that will ultimately fail. Like it or not, without standard this game and GGG would fold. Players first coming to this game may like the initial temp leagues, but then they find comfort in knowing that when it ends they get to hoard it all. They might join a new temp league, but they don't truly experience that feeling of total loss. They also have the choice to start anew or continue in standard where they left off. Streamers are really the only tiny base who could care less about perm or temp because their primary goal is to get subscribers and their $$. They will play other games and aren't necessarily loyal to POE. Whatever gets them more viewers is the name of their game. To the small minority bashing perm leagues you should thank the player base that enjoys the game in perm standard or hc, because without this as an option, there would be no POE.

Citation needed, for all of it. Every time GGG posts stats during leagues, the leagues are always insanely more popular than their counterpart. I once saw one where hardcore had <1% of the player population.

I don't disagree that there are people who prefer Standard, but I do disagree with your entire line of reasoning.

GGG doesn't build the game around the permanent standard league because its predecessors have found the most success focusing on temporary leagues to foster a competitive environment. This model they have been following has clearly shown TIME AND TIME AGAIN that it is successful. PoE is bigger than ever years later after its release.

GGG has not forgotten or ignored Standard, but Standard needs to understand that for GGG to be successful, it must press forward, even if the changes are not always positive to the subjective economy of Standard.

"

Aerinqq wrote:

ITT vast majority of ppl shouting "great" or "best change!" etc have few things in common: They are casuals, who has never seen a single eternal in their life, have absolutely no idea, how crafting top tier items works and prolly dont even know, what does eternal orb actually do. Besides that, theyre poor, hate trading and hate everyone, who was ever actually willing to put effort into farming items, trading, exping or crafting.

The single most hilarious thing is, they are not affected by this change a bit, its just their jealousy towards ppl, who have putted more effort into this game then them.

Oh, and for ppl shouting "standard is garbage" or "who plays standard anyway", maybe, u know, there are still some ppl, who like to min max, who like to work towards gearing their toons with good items, or maybe ppl, who like to exp to high level.
Now u can go and start new char, level it to 70, never manage to obtain a single decent item and then, in few months, u can just go and do it all over again, again and again. Must be rly fun.

U dont like powerful items? U dont want to grind exp to get to high lvl? U dont like trading/learning how the market works? U dont like crafting? Fine, then go play your temp. league and stop finally bitching about something, that doesnt affect you one bit.

Agree 100% as harsh as the statement is

I peeked at some profiles last night out of curiosity when this broke and I found it surprising that most of the people who were rejoicing probably couldn't obtain a Mirror let alone Eternal Craft

This game, at its essence, revolves around the use of currency, some RNG, but mostly decision making and what you do with what you have. And what, they're mad because they didn't work harder to stockpile crafting currency, or they're mad because they rolled 10x Level 60 alts and never reached end game? Laughable

Honestly all I see is just jealousy and animosity over something that has zero effect on the majority of the population. Makes little sense to me

"

Chris wrote:

...the impact they've had on Path of Exile and its economy hasn't been what we initially intended.

What was the intended impact and use as opposed to the current status?

I think a solution could be to drop them only in challenge leagues.

1) it encourages more new league play.
2) players have a decision to spend eternals in the league for less than mirror worthy items or try to gather enough to actually craft a mirror worthy item.
3) or players can save them for standard and sell it there.

I think the issue would balance itself out. Stopping the drop of eternals in permanent leagues would make crafting mirror worthy items still possible while making it much harder. People playing only challenge leagues might be tempted to cash in their eternals and play standard, everyone is happy with this scenario.

I honestly don't think it matters whether or not the folks rejoicing can eternal craft or not. I do think that they're mistaken in their rejoicing though. It doesn't really change standard's economy at all (still wouldn't if you got rid of mirrors too), and adds a barrier to entry into the upper 1% who profited off of eternal orbs to begin with. So who gets screwed the most with eternals removal? Well the people trying to enter the upper 1%. The upper 1% already have enough eternals to continue crafting in standard if that is what they want to do. The folks that aren't there yet now get stuck with a much more random crafting game, and everybody else it doesn't affect at all, because eternals and exalts are both more useful as currency than as crafting items -- and assume this stands true for the temp leagues as well.

I still hold by one of my previous statements, a better solution for all the naysayers would haven't been the removal of eternals but flooding the market. If the market was sufficiently flooded they'd not only know the use for eternals but also know that it only makes crafting easier not instant or cheap -- especially not on items that have a large variety of mods such as rings. Getting the first two or three t1s that benefit you are significantly easier than the last ones, so much so, that without eternals it's almost not worth doing other than for fun -- and that is what yolo exalting is, playing the lottery for fun. Get a drop that good? Maybe, if you're extremely lucky but I doubt it.

There is only one target with this change, and that is to make it harder to craft perfect items. Which I also said earlier. If that is what GGG intended, then job well done. I'm not sure how I feel about it to be honest because I liked the concept of eternal exalting to obtain perfect gear. Gives a man a goal for a standard player like me. Now I'll probably end up settling for maybe 3 or maybe 4 perfect rolls, because that is actually obtainable, rather than hoping for the full 6 someday.

"

Aerinqq wrote:

ITT vast majority of ppl shouting "great" or "best change!" etc have few things in common: They are casuals, who has never seen a single eternal in their life, have absolutely no idea, how crafting top tier items works and prolly dont even know, what does eternal orb actually do. Besides that, theyre poor, hate trading and hate everyone, who was ever actually willing to put effort into farming items, trading, exping or crafting.

The single most hilarious thing is, they are not affected by this change a bit, its just their jealousy towards ppl, who have putted more effort into this game then them.

Oh, and for ppl shouting "standard is garbage" or "who plays standard anyway", maybe, u know, there are still some ppl, who like to min max, who like to work towards gearing their toons with good items, or maybe ppl, who like to exp to high level.
Now u can go and start new char, level it to 70, never manage to obtain a single decent item and then, in few months, u can just go and do it all over again, again and again. Must be rly fun.

U dont like powerful items? U dont want to grind exp to get to high lvl? U dont like trading/learning how the market works? U dont like crafting? Fine, then go play your temp. league and stop finally bitching about something, that doesnt affect you one bit.

oh my god my sentiments exactly +1

"

ZZZappy wrote:

"

cgexile wrote:

Games like this bank on people's hoarding disorder. Most people have this psychological problem but it's the severity that differs from person to person. That's why there are permanent leagues so we can retain and accumulate. A game that does not take advantage of this human weakness is a game that will ultimately fail. Like it or not, without standard this game and GGG would fold. Players first coming to this game may like the initial temp leagues, but then they find comfort in knowing that when it ends they get to hoard it all. They might join a new temp league, but they don't truly experience that feeling of total loss. They also have the choice to start anew or continue in standard where they left off. Streamers are really the only tiny base who could care less about perm or temp because their primary goal is to get subscribers and their $$. They will play other games and aren't necessarily loyal to POE. Whatever gets them more viewers is the name of their game. To the small minority bashing perm leagues you should thank the player base that enjoys the game in perm standard or hc, because without this as an option, there would be no POE.

Citation needed, for all of it. Every time GGG posts stats during leagues, the leagues are always insanely more popular than their counterpart. I once saw one where hardcore had <1% of the player population.

I don't disagree that there are people who prefer Standard, but I do disagree with your entire line of reasoning.

GGG doesn't build the game around the permanent standard league because its predecessors have found the most success focusing on temporary leagues to foster a competitive environment. This model they have been following has clearly shown TIME AND TIME AGAIN that it is successful. PoE is bigger than ever years later after its release.

GGG has not forgotten or ignored Standard, but Standard needs to understand that for GGG to be successful, it must press forward, even if the changes are not always positive to the subjective economy of Standard.

right, but understand that this change is being made 100% because of standard league, the effect standard league, this is a standard league change from top to bottom. Changes to eternals and if they change mirrors then mirrors too are completely standard league changes. No one is doing anything harmful with eternals or mirrors in a temp league, if this game was only about temp leagues there is 0 problem with these orbs. The problem is people making perfect gear, that doesnt happen in temp leagues. The couple of exceptions to that rule are items that have been made, namely a bow and a dagger, and then the league has ended soon after and the item no longer exists in a temp league.

You say GGG doesnt build around standard, this change is 100% built around standard. Its not a case of "this change is needed for temp leagues and its knock on effects for standard arnt a consideration" no, not at all, this is a change 100% for standard league as the effects of the eternal brute force crafting and then mirroring scene are only taking place in standard league. The exact opposite is true, any insignificant use of eternals or mirrors in temp leagues is being ignored in order to press through changes that need to be made for the sake of standard league and its item economy.

People need to understand that they do care about standard and they do make changes based on standard, all this talk of it only being balanced around temp leagues is complete nonsense because a change like this makes absolutely no sense from a temp league point of view, neither does power creeping mods like ipd etc. Sure changing probability of mods and break points etc is for everyone, one could argue that allowing more core stats or resists has some overall design reasoning but ultimately a lot of these changes have been standard league changes even if GGG would never admit it for various reasons. They are however open about the fact they care about standard and generally speaking do make changes based on perm leagues, the idea that they dont is just talk from people who want to push that agenda for whatever reason, its not actually true.

YAY!!! I AM RICH!!! COME BUY MY ETERNAL AT 999 MIRORS!!! XDDDDDDD
Seriously, if you like RNG so much, just make the whole damn game RNG based such as, RNG to get X amount of skill point when leveling from 0-10, RNG to get the right quest needed to progress when you click on the gate 5% chance, RNG to create the character of your choice, RNG this RNG that. RNG all the way. This game should be renamed PATH OF RNG GAMBLING. It is gambling in nature and they say gambling is "bad". <eye rolls>

Anyway, personally, I think this is a changed that is needed, for good or for bad. Just one thing tho.. Can we at least have the drop rates of rare usable currencies increased??? >.> You said that currencies are supposed to be used for both crafting and as "money", but after all these playing... there is a very clear disparity of what "currency" is used for crafting (Jewel orb, orb of fusing, some extend chaos orbs)and what currency is used for trading as "money" (I am referring to you "exalted orb"). And they the developers say they want people to make meaningful decisions when it is clear cut that you are either filthy rich or just like gambling or for fun, you wont in your sane mind USE EXALTED ORBS. Fail developers and their ideal philosophies.
Hopefully this eternal orb change can change these perceptions as what the developers expect. (Just saying, what you think you will get is not what you will get since you are dealing with people. hey, even machines sometimes don't do what you think and expect it will do for you, anyone who has done some programming understands this.)

*All said above are my own opinion, I have my right to voice my opinion and you have yours, but lets keep it civil as good as we can :)

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

I still hold by one of my previous statements, a better solution for all the naysayers would haven't been the removal of eternals but flooding the market.

But this will mean more GG items flooding the market, i dont think GGG really want that. There is a reason why master hybrid crafting was removed.

"

Aerinqq wrote:

ITT vast majority of ppl shouting "great" or "best change!" etc have few things in common: They are casuals, who has never seen a single eternal in their life, have absolutely no idea, how crafting top tier items works and prolly dont even know, what does eternal orb actually do. Besides that, theyre poor, hate trading and hate everyone, who was ever actually willing to put effort into farming items, trading, exping or crafting.

The single most hilarious thing is, they are not affected by this change a bit, its just their jealousy towards ppl, who have putted more effort into this game then them.

Oh, and for ppl shouting "standard is garbage" or "who plays standard anyway", maybe, u know, there are still some ppl, who like to min max, who like to work towards gearing their toons with good items, or maybe ppl, who like to exp to high level.
Now u can go and start new char, level it to 70, never manage to obtain a single decent item and then, in few months, u can just go and do it all over again, again and again. Must be rly fun.

U dont like powerful items? U dont want to grind exp to get to high lvl? U dont like trading/learning how the market works? U dont like crafting? Fine, then go play your temp. league and stop finally bitching about something, that doesnt affect you one bit.

there are people who fit the description you put forward, of course there is. But thats not everyone, dont kid yourself that it is.

The bold bit at the end, powerful items? how do you define powerful items? Its a relative term, the most powerful items are the most powerful items, I think most people like those things seeing as this is an item game built around chasing ever more powerful items.

But before eternals existed, were there no powerful items? Think about that. Of course there were, there were the most powerful and desired items in the game at that time and people wanted them just like the most powerful and desired items in the game right now. Its a lack of perception and understanding of the overall situation to look at the most powerful items now and judge the most powerful items back then by todays standards, that misses the point entirely. The point is that there will always be "the most powerful items I can get", it doesnt matter how the items in 1 environment compare to another environment, it matters where those items sit in the realms of possibility and what that means for progression.

In a situation like the one we had before eternals there was still the top 1% items that the top 1% players were striving for an achieving, its the same situation, the difference is that those items were not the best items possible given the game mods, they were just the best items that happen to have existed. Thats what is important, a perfect item is the end of the road, if its technically not possible to have a better item as is the case with loathe bane, that crazy wand Jake crafted etc, then that is it, done, once you have it theres literally nowhere to go. In a game built around progression thats not good.

If perfect items are practically impossible then you still have 'the best item on the entire server' 'the best dagger' 'the best wand' etc, but theres potential there for better, theres no end of the road, any day, any craft might turn over that item that is significantly better and without a complete miracle this will go on forever basically, the end of the road for item progression is 100 years down the line in a game that might last 15 years. That is a good thing, this is something people should want, if you want an end of the road, to be 'finished', to have nowhere else to go then you can uninstall any time you want, while you are still here its far better that theres always that little bit more, forever, for as long as you want to stick with it. You can still have "the best dagger on the server" but if its not the best dagger that can possibly be made, if in fact its significantly far off the best dagger that can possibly exist then theres still something to be in the game for. Its not about hating powerful items and high level characters, its about appreciating the relative nature of gear and the scope for progression that realistically possible gear vs technically possible gear allows for.

The eternal + mirror situation destroyed that scope. Is it good to take out eternals? Well, it would have been far, far better to take out mirrors. Is it enough to just take out eternals? not really ebcause while mirrors exist then the harmful gear made with them is still and end of the road for players because they can dupe these unbeatable items that already exist. So no its not ideal and its not enough but that doesnt make it a bad change, its a start, a good start towards getting the item game back to where it should be. Ya, of course theres bitter people who this doesnt effect just cheering out of jealousy, but that doesnt mean everyone who agrees with the change is that guy and it doesnt mean everyone cheering is wrong.