Map Drops in The Awakening
" Dafuq? I can't imagine a SSF player paying 75 chaos for a 77 map, lol. Reduce that 75 chaos down to whatever the going rate is that people buy 77 maps from players for and I still can't see a SSF player paying that, nor any amount of chaos between. Kicker, the trading person who buys the maps from players is doing so because he has access to the orbs from trading. Casually casual.
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"yeah Id assume so as well, but if you are just out of luck and consider it below your ego to run maps for free, and have some currency, then maybe. my point was to illustrate how people want maps...for free. they dont want to pay for maps with time nor currency but rather pay with 'my build is good enough', which is highly illogical in the first place in a game like PoE. if one has good alt gear and can sleepwalk through cruel doesnt mean one should have access to merciless. and thats core game. endgame is optional and theres nothing wrong with requiring some currency tradeoff. on that second part of your post, that is not necessarily true. you can buy maps with your currency drops. chaos recipe is extremely easy and accessible to anyone if they farm. so is regal recipe once you hit 75 maps. we're not back in open beta where a 77 map price was 2+ex Last edited by grepman on Jun 12, 2015, 6:25:33 PM
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I think for me the fundamental problem with the map system is that if you have bad luck with maps the content becomes significantly less engaging.
If a person is having bad luck gearing up a new character they can keep progressing by paying more attention and playing better. If a person is having bad luck with map drops and they want to keep progressing they are left running boring content over and over and hoping their luck turns around. Maybe the person isn't spending enough currency to get good maps but as a more casual player spending currency on maps isn't fun at all. | |
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spending currency on almost anything isn't really "fun" though. how "fun" was that 4 alc you spent on crafting bench to get some fire res you needed on your item?
maps are a currency sink. or at least, they were. on live server the sink is very small, its almost a symbolical fee for experience you're getting. (you chisel highest maps if needed), and then alt for magic/pack, aug. if its a 78 courtyard you throw a yolo regal on it. the only real currency sink on live with maps is zana map mods that can be added. most of the time the mods arent worth the cost, with the exception of beyond if youre going for experience. Last edited by grepman on Jun 12, 2015, 6:45:40 PM
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" How much are 77 maps from players? People say chaos and regal recipe are easy. As a SSF player you would be stupid to do UNID. Even using 'bad base' rings and ammys. The best ammy I have found to date is still a drop from Lunaris Piety on a coral base, which anyone would tell you is the target for an UNID recipe. Doing UNID recipe when your gear is 100% from drops is just silly. So each regal or chaos generated from ID recipe requires 1 ammy and 2 rings. That's a huge 'bottleneck' right there. I can map for 12 hours per day and I'll still struggle to passively make the 12 chaos for 20 chisels from zana per day, I often have to use alchemy orbs to make rare jewellery, I'll often have to not do regal rceipes to make up those 12 chaos, or in other words, making them 12 chaos per day means I make even less regals per day, which I can no way produce enough of any way for to do the trans/alt/aug/regal map rolling method any where near what I should. Alching method would save in regals but then eat into the chaos or scour/alchs. Scour/alchs are a precious resource for allowing a carto to be rolled, scours and alchs are made by doing both alch recipe and chance recipe, the chances then vendor swapped into scours. People tend to forget that a lot of recipes such as chaos and regal are much easier done when one is mapping in groups, because the cost is 1/6th, and are much easier done when trading because spending alchs on white jewellery can return the alchs from sellable results while the crap goes into the recipe. Completely cutting out any shared mapping cost and any income from trades and utilising all recipes in a multi-layered system while actually mapping and attempting to sustain will never result in spare anything to buy maps. Casually casual.
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Those goals for map system seem pretty reasonable.
I like the "hard to complete" but "hard to sustain" is definitely questionable. I feel like "takes some thought/planning to sustain" would be better. Forcing us to run low mind-numbing maps for the occasional fun/rewarding one is kind of lame. Hopefully with careful planning it's possible to continually play maps within the top three zone levels. Rest sounds cool to me! IGN - Xukai Mirror Service - /1046531 Last edited by trav_dawg on Jun 12, 2015, 7:59:17 PM
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" I havent bought a map for almost two years now, so dont quote me on the price, but I think 78s go for 20 chaos per (2 78s for an exalt). again, if someone is aware of standard prices they can correct me on UNID- I agree with what you wrote, I dont do unid either, the most Id do is keep 2Hs and armour pieces that are 15%+ quality for the quality recipe. this recipe can somewhat interfere with the chisel recipe if you start doing it with 10% pieces, but not really if you only do it for 15+. I also do the iron rings+coral/paua for that extra chance of getting a nice ammy. I also dont really alch white jewelry. I never split a map cost with anyone else and I always use all portals lol plus you can trade for maps with your choice of currency. if its not chaos, it can be gcp (which Im stockpiling now because masters are pimps), can be alchs, alts, whatever. a hypothetical zana can vendor 78s for a ton of alts (600 alts or something like that), which simply translate into grinding time. but in general, I never said maps shouldnt be sinks, so obviously you would and you *should*, imo lose currency by running maps, not the other way around. thats where SSF gets screwed imo, because you cant sell drops or exchange currency into another currency, so you always have some surplus that is just 'wasted'. | |
" I disagree, at least in part. If I'm not trading and going only on what I've found myself, I'd rather have the extra chaos. Here's why: I'm only crafting on desirable bases with max or near-max implicits and high item levels. I only need one of each base to craft on, and to start with, they can drop white for all I care. If I craft and the mods aren't what I'm looking for, I either spam more crafting materials, or put the item aside until I have more mats. The vast majority of the rare items that drop are the wrong base or have poor implicits (or bad sockets/links, if we're not talking about jewelry - I don't want to spend any more than I must). I can tell all these things without IDing the item. It stays un-IDed, because I want the extra chaos to spam at the items that are good enough to craft. The exception to this rule, of course, is when the yellow drop has the right base, item level, and implicits (and sockets and links if applicable). Those get identified, because there's just as good a chance that the mods I need are already on the item, as any I'd get by spamming chaos at the item. So it's not a case of "always bad" or "always good" to ID or not ID the item - it's situational based on the item base, item level, implicits, and sockets/links. | |
" I'm specifically referring to amulets and rings as they are what drop less, they are what you will be needing to complete recipes, you will drop literally dozens of each other slot for each amulet and 2 rings. Some of the best rings I've dropped have been low level, one of them is only lvl 29 requirement, needless to say as soon as the ilvl for chaos is reached we can ID some crazy items. In fact probably the best ring I ID'd was on a paua base, I valled it and lost, hitting one of the good vaal implicits would have made it seriously insane. Same with ammys, Drop from Lunaris Piety " Yeah I fucked that one, too :D But it was an insane ammy before the vaal, would have been amazing with a good vaal and I'd never have had it if using UNID recipe. It's also worth noting that this happened pre masters, that mana yolo exalt would have been a %ES master craft. You are choosing to not ID 2 rings 1 ammy and even a belt as all 3 slots can roll REALLY good at ilvl 60 on any base and get good vaal implicits while not being socket locked on corruption, for an extra chaos. Everyone to their own, but when you are not using trade to supply your items, that's a bad choice. Even other slots can mostly roll good on every base, there's really not many items that can't possibly roll good, attack weapons on a low base really being the only ones that can't roll good and as they need the other slots to be UNID also, it's irrelevant. As for wanting more chaos because you only need a single white base, uhhm, that's more like.. you need more chaos because you are only using a single white base. There is no shortage of white bases, why would you stick with a single one which then required you to sacrifice possible good IDs to feed the chaos it requires? Casually casual. Last edited by TheAnuhart on Jun 13, 2015, 1:10:06 PM
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" Agreed. So our bottleneck is almost always ammies and rings, and sometimes belts. " Well, yeah, everyone gets lucky sometimes. All I'm saying is when I play SSF, I choose to try my luck with the extra chaos instead of with the random drop. " Damn. You have my sincerest sympathy on that craft. RNGeezus must have been in a particularly cruel mood that day. " That's correct. The rings and ammies are not very likely to be a) on a base I need, b) have max or near-max implicits, and c) have the highest possible item-level. If for some reason they meet all three of the above criteria, then I would ID them, but they are most likely not going to do so. I am not likely to have missed out on not identifying them, because I'm getting two chances at crafting a base that does meet the above criteria. You make a good point with the fact that you can get some really nice jewelry on inferior bases and with poor implicits, but again, that's entirely a matter of luck, which should average out over time. Only in my case, when the luck does hit, it will hit on a better base, with better implicits, and a better item-level. Let's say I need one rare ring to complete a chaos set. A rare paua drops. I do not need the mana bump from the implicit. Case One: I ID the ring. There are two possible results a) It's a good roll. I now have got a good ring on a bad base, at the cost of two chaos and one wizzy, This is probably a bad deal for me, since I've missed on the opportunity to have a good roll on a better base, but maybe I can use it on a different character. b) I get a bad roll, which is much more likely. I turn the set in for the one chaos. I can now use the one chaos from the recipe to roll one time on the superior base I'm crafting (say, gold ring with top implicit). Either a) I get an unlikely good roll, or b) I get a bad roll. Either way, the total cost is two chaos and a wizzy. So four things can happen, three of which are bad. Case Two: I leave the ring unidentified and turn in for two chaos. I can now use both for two chances at a good roll on a superior base. Either a) I get an unlikely good roll, or b) I get a bad roll. Either way, the total cost is two chaos (saved the wizzy at least). So, two things can happen, and one of them is bad. The odds for a very nice item are better though, since the itemlevel is higher, the implicit is what I want (and max or near-max), and most of all, the base is the one I want. So to me, using the missing chaos on a desirable base makes much more sense. " I wish that were the case, I really do. But it's not often that I create a character that doesn't need to choose from a very specific list of bases for a particular gear slot (and usually just one) - all others might as well not exist, except to feed me chaos for the craft. " As above, because even a good roll on a random rare is a good roll on a bad base. Since I get the same number of chances for a good roll with two chaos, and on a better base, I'd rather have the extra chaos. However, you bring up a good point - what if I had an additional white item with max implicits on the correct base? In that case, I'd turn in the first bad roll for another single-chaos set. That brings my total cost to only one chaos plus a white base, or I can spend the extra chaos for a third chance to get a good roll on a superior base, as above. BTW, thanks for the interesting conversation. I've followed your posts for a long time and greatly respect your game knowledge. Last edited by Tao_Jones on Jun 13, 2015, 7:38:49 PM
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