[3.2] Scionic Flametank "16k ES ed." (ES-CI-ZO-GR, SR-CWC-FS, extensive guide)

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

@Novalisk

Le Heup of All - temporary leveling rings, right? OR are they your end goal?

Pretty much endgame rings, the build makes such efficient use of every stat there (implicit aside) that finding a better one would be very costly.

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I'm assuming Solaris pantheon to effectively eliminate extra damage from crits and reduce the spike damage issue to unlucky streaks of block failure.

Correct, capturing that boss is essential for the reckless avenger combo to work.

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Unless you are planning on progressing further via the Harrier node, have you considered exiting the Scion wheel via Shaper instead? You replace some cast speed for regeneration, which is always nice against degen if nothing else, but more importantly it will allow you to pick up Potency of Will for 3 points for another +45% duration.

Harrier is there for shield charge mobility for the most part, and I'll probably get rid of it when I get my last ascendancy points (i'll use the witch start) which also takes the Shaper path out of the picture. I could still path into potency of will, not sure about it yet.

I also can't wait until it develops further, thanks!

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

@All3x

I consider around 1% leech to be good enough to drop Warlord's Mark, as that is more than enough to hit the leech cap when raining fire down on large groups of mobs, which is the situation where Warlord's Mark shines for the build, and while it won't make you hit the leech cap on solo bosses it will still provide more than Warlord's Mark did on the Guardians, Shaper, and Elder due to their lowered curse effectiveness. So your Watcher's Eye will do the job nicely.

Get yourself a pair of Alberon's Warpath with the 2% regeneration enchantment to replace your ok-kill leech boots and replace Warlord's Mark with Enfeeble, Temporal Chains, or Elemental Weakness. I recommend a 20/20 Enfeeble as being the all-round best choice, but if you are cruising through content and just want to kill bosses faster Elemental Weakness should be the choice. (Neither will do much on Elder/Shaper/Guardians, but every bit helps and most of the game consists of crushing weak mobs and normal bosses anyway)

It is possible to get more leech than your Watcher's Eye from an elder amulet. E.g. I got lucky buying this elder amulet for my level 82 Bestiary tank-in-training at a comparatively low price of 30c, an elder amulet combining regeneration and fire leech:

I wish, I wish, I wish that amulet had more strength, and it does not leech enough that I drop Warlord's Mark, but it must be said that otherwise it suits the build nicely.

Just remember that the leech component of the build is hard-capped - you simply cannot recover more from leeching than 20% of ES/s, so while getting additional leech would allow you to hit the cap easier on bosses you are probably better off using an amulet with regeneration and high stats.

Many thanks for your opinion and fast reply, let me just discuss one more thing:

In boots CWDT i've been using the early setup but changed the fireball with arc, with the point of shocking bosses so they take more damage. I haven't tried the cremation/unearth, but i will soon. For boss killing purposes which setup you think works better? (you ever considered arc to shock?)

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All3x wrote:

Many thanks for your opinion and fast reply, let me just discuss one more thing:

In boots CWDT i've been using the early setup but changed the fireball with arc, with the point of shocking bosses so they take more damage. I haven't tried the cremation/unearth, but i will soon. For boss killing purposes which setup you think works better? (you ever considered arc to shock?)

In a word, no.

Fireball has 6% base crit while Arc has 5%, and the shock ailment is only inflicted when a hit does at least 0.2% of the target's health damage health in damage (needed for 1% effect) in accordance with this post on shock changes last year, which I have assumed that a lowlevel arc unsupported by anything will be extremely unlikely to inflict. Has anything changed since 3.0 release in this respect?

If things have changed it would arguably be worth using despite the increase in damage being miniscule due to the shock effect being scaled to the damage inflicted by the hit that triggers the shock. (Going from a 0.2% hit resulting in 1% increased damage taken to a 10%+ hit resulting in 50% increased damage taken.) EDIT: Unless that has changed too, of course. If so, I definitely want to know. :)

I can certainly see taking Arc rather than fireball simply because it looks better and is nearly as good at critting, but for shock purposes, no.

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As for the Unearth/Cremation variant, I'm tempted myself to return to the tried and true Ice Spear variant, if nothing else then because the Herald of Ash version doesn't require any extra dexterity if you use that instead of the Unearth/Cremation.

But it just looks so good to have small volcanos popping up all over the place. :D

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Fireball has 6% base crit while Arc has 5%, and the shock ailment is only inflicted when a hit does at least 0.2% of the target's health damage health in damage (needed for 1% effect) in accordance with this post on shock changes last year, which I have assumed that a lowlevel arc unsupported by anything will be extremely unlikely to inflict. Has anything changed since 3.0 release in this respect?

If you have evidence to the contrary, that it actually does shock bosses, it would arguably be worth using despite the increase in damage being miniscule due to the shock effect being scaled to the damage inflicted by the hit that triggers the shock. (Going from a 0.2% hit resulting in 1% increased damage taken to a 10%+ hit resulting in 50% increased damage taken.)

I haven't been able to confirm that arc actually shocks the bosses. I had no idea about the need for the hit to take % of max hp, since the description says it has 20% (at q20) chance to shock, i assumed that was enough for it to proc.

Therefore i will today test the cremation/unearth variation, since all extra damage is always welcome.

Dexterity is not a problem at this point, mainly because i'm currently using Astamentis, mainly because i have no currency to buy any better, but also because, since i'm using Cyclopean Coil, i get a good damage boost from 1% per 5 of lower attribute, which atm is dex with 220+, maybe in end game i will have to change the amulet for other to improve ES and Regen, but for now, this helps farming even faster.

turns out, this build is rly tanky
Did uberlab at BHC at 72 with 5 l lvl 16 gems into fully buffed izaro xd
when it come to clear - this build lacks speed for sure(well maybe couse my gems are lvl 16 and i have 5 link)
But probably with lvl 20 gems in 6 link set-up with some better jewels and rings(opal rings, 2x damage es jewels, this build can shine at clearing trash)
PS:
I am sure this build can facetank both shaper and uber elder at some point, and probably can do uber elder aswell if u gonna have the damage

Good to hear you are having fun, LostSinner666.

Looking at your character, I can see that you are using four sockets for a SC-FA-FO combo and Decoy Totem in place of the EO trigger, which makes excellent sense for a hardcore build but does mean that you'll have less uptime on that sweet 40% more damage from EO.

That aside, I have to say that even with level 20 gems, a 6L, and great gear tilted towards damage on some of the ring/jewel mods instead of going all out defense, you'll never reach what is considered good clear speed in the current metagame where normal blobs die in the blink of an eye with the push of a button.

There'll always be a that delay caused by the ramp-up time of stacking firestorms with SR-CWC-FS. 0.35s from SR click until the first begins, the second from 0.7s, and so on, which is why it often pays off to collect several packs of trash mobs while running and then flame them down in one go, but even then... the feeling is noticeably different.

As for bosses, the difference between running around doing some 300k-400k dps against bosses staying within sustained firestorming with this build and playing one of the "do a bazillion DPS and earn $$$ fast" builds remains pronounced.

The upside is that, as you note, it is really tanky.

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PS: I'm still hoping that one of those running the build in this or last league who've played far enough to fight the Elder can chime in and say how it went.

As noted earlier my guess is that like all other content I've faced he'll fall to the flametank given decent gear, but it would be nice to have confirmation and to know if there's anything particular to look out for.

If we have to wait for me to test it we'll only have an answer weeks from now given my limited time available for playing and how slowly I gear up my Bestiary tank. :)

Thanks for the build, I love it so far. For leveling I got a Brutus' Lead Sprinkler and used it until Boon Cuebiyari, which made leveling much easier, surprised it wasn't mentioned in the leveling section. Also got my first ever 6-link after 50 fusing on the Geofri's, so I think the game was trying to telling me something.

I decided to go Elementalist over Occultist though. It just seems like such a large damage boost, that it will let me focus on defense more in other area. Doing a self-casted Orb of Storms - Arcane Surge - Increase Critical Strikes, which can proc Shock, Elemental Overload and Arcane Surge against bosses. Gaining +10% more from shock, +5% more from improved Herald, +13% more from Arcane Surge, +10 Resist Pen, Reflect Immune. Seems well worth the loss of 1 extra curse, 1.5% regen, and 2 saved point from Unwavering Stance.

Think I will just stay at 1 Curse, and switch between Flammablity and Enfeeble depending on the situation. With the life/mana regen Lab boot enchant and getting life leech one other place (either Watcher's Eye or Shaper amulet), don't think will miss Warlord's Mark much.

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endoscient wrote:

Thanks for the build, I love it so far. For leveling I got a Brutus' Lead Sprinkler and used it until Boon Cuebiyari, which made leveling much easier, surprised it wasn't mentioned in the leveling section. Also got my first ever 6-link after 50 fusing on the Geofri's, so I think the game was trying to telling me something.

I decided to go Elementalist over Occultist though. It just seems like such a large damage boost, that it will let me focus on defense more in other area. Doing a self-casted Orb of Storms - Arcane Surge - Increase Critical Strikes, which can proc Shock, Elemental Overload and Arcane Surge against bosses. Gaining +10% more from shock, +5% more from improved Herald, +13% more from Arcane Surge, +10 Resist Pen, Reflect Immune. Seems well worth the loss of 1 extra curse, 1.5% regen, and 2 saved point from Unwavering Stance.

Think I will just stay at 1 Curse, and switch between Flammablity and Enfeeble depending on the situation. With the life/mana regen Lab boot enchant and getting life leech one other place (either Watcher's Eye or Shaper amulet), don't think will miss Warlord's Mark much.

The elementalist version with or without dual-cursing is definitely the higher damage version of the build by a respectable margin. The reason I recommend Occultist as the main variant is simply that it is the most tanky by a good bit with the least investment in gear, and it is usually easier to take a build that is already extremely strong defensively and weaken them progressively in return for damage if so desired than doing it the other way around.

When testing out 3.2 variants against end-game maps with my level 93 3.0 character the differences stood out. I could really feel the difference between using Herald of Ash and Arctic Armour.

AA's ability to cut that bit of extra physical damage from high-tier boss slams was much appreciated (I know, I know, good players are not supposed to take boss slams on the chin... but I often do) and what was saved when fighting myriads of melee trash mobs must surely all add up, and while 1.5% regeneration (or rather, 2.25% recovery from regeneration) doesn't seem like much given that there are many sources of regeneration, and while not all enemies would end up cursed, and while having 8-10% evasion with OCC doesn't matter that much - well, it all adds up.

Which is why in the end I only recommend the elementalist version for those with good gear or better reflexes than mine.

I may end up reconsidering this as I progress through 3.2; worthwhile elder/shaper gear has proven to be more readily available in the league than I expected even for a person like me who does not play enough to generate large amounts of currency, but I'm not changing the guide on that part quite yet. It would be a shame to downgrade the main variant from "ridiculously tanky" to merely "extremely tanky" without good reason. :D


On other points you mention, I'm ashamed to say that while I had certainly considered OOS-ICS as an EO trigger combined with various other support gems (onslaught, culling strike, etc), I had discarded it so quickly due to my love of automation that I completely overlooked the possibility of combining it with AS while limiting AS to a level such that it would be triggered by a single cast. Talk about missing the obvious!

I'm taking that you run OOS(20/20) - ICS(20/20)- AS(7/20)

I don't like the idea of casting that every 5.8s to maintain the AS buff on boss fights though I can see how it might appeal to others less in love with automation, but I can see that combined with how the elementalist's speciality that any shock is at least 10% increased damage taken from shock, and hence bypasses the "you must do at least 0.2% damage because that is a 1% shock, and shocks less than 1% are cut off" rule neatly makes it just too delicious an interaction to pass up if using an elementalist variation.

Which means I'll definitely have to update the guide in this respect despite my love for the thematic volcanos. Oh, well, I always knew that the guide would be a work-in-progress as I progressed through 3.2.

Thanks a lot!

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

AA's ability to cut that bit of extra physical damage from high-tier boss slams was much appreciated (I know, I know, good players are not supposed to take boss slams on the chin... but I often do) and what was saved when fighting myriads of melee trash mobs must surely all add up, and while 1.5% regeneration (or rather, 2.25% recovery from regeneration) doesn't seem like much given that there are many sources of regeneration, and while not all enemies would end up cursed, and while having 8-10% evasion with OCC doesn't matter that much - well, it all adds up.

Currently I dropped Vitality for the Herald, instead of Arctic Armor. Since have had no lack of regen yet, but only at T10 so that may change. I also did a Chaos Golem for my 2nd golem for another 4% physical damage reduction.

I also just really love the reflect immune aspect of it too. Nothing annoys me more then having the map you want final drop (or buy it) and getting reflect and having to sell or Chaos it.

Here is a service announcement to rich flametanks in BSC. Right now there are three Watcher's Eyes with dual highly valuable mods for sale:

+leech/Vit
+ES on hit/Disc
for 8ex
(this one is awesome for active recovery)

+leech/Vit
+maxES from mana/Clarity
for 18ex
(another 1.5-2k ES AND leech? words fail me)

and

+ES recovery/Disc
+maxES from mana/Clarity
for 30ex
(words fail me; we are talking 18k+ ES/9k+ ES/s passive recovery from regeneration when recently hit and standing still with good gear post 90)

These are all completely beyond my price range (I don't think I've ever had more than 6ex that wasn't already sunk into gear in any league so far :p) but they deserve belonging to somebody playing a flametank, so in case one of you playing in BSC is a rich bastard, don't already have an awesome Watcher's Eye, and want to try to take the tank to the max - consider buying one of these.