What's Being Kept from Torment/Bloodlines?

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Fenral wrote:

I strongly dislike the idea behind nemesis mods or bloodlines mods. Slapping random abilities onto random monsters is just RNG. It adds nothing meaningful or substantial, and is honestly one of the things I disliked most about diablo 3 rare/champion monsters.

I don't think it has any place in this game outside of a map mod or zana mod.

So you just want magic/rare packs to be the same as trash mobs?

I love how much whining there is right now concerning the league merge and content being included. It makes me wonder how many of these people complaining about BL mods even played Nemesis.

Back in Nemesis herald of thunder and corrupted blood put the fear of Dominus into you. Similarly, chaos bond, otherworldly, and voidspawn packs are doing the same now. But... You don't really hear the large population complaining about herald of thunder or corrupted blood anymore, do you? That's because their spawn rate dropped off significantly. So will BL mod packs.

Anyone complaining now must be new. I've played in both temporary leagues now, and my only concern moving forward is that since Onslaught/Anarchy began the temporary leagues, SC has been getting all of the cool toys. HC seems shafted.

Rogue Exiles? Strongboxes? Shrines? Tormented Spirits? Every update brings something new and fresh!

Then there's hardcore... Nemesis was new. Invasion was new. Then Nemesis 2.0 (BL) and Invasion 2.0 (Beyond). I'm not saying BL and Beyond were bad. I played both. But the concepts (non uniques have new mods!/unique bosses to fight!) were not new.

Please, GGG, do something new for HC next 4 month league. As someone who plays almost entirely HC leagues (I dabbled in Torment purely to experience the spirits/try to get the challenge) I almost feel insulted. I get you guys want to keep the HC temporary league theme to dangerous "we want to kill you" content, but you can still do that while keeping things fresh!

Looking forward to being surprised for the next one, which will hopefully release with Act 4.

TL;DR:

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Completed 4 ChallengesFreeMark wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

The additional attention on PvP has successfully increased participation levels, but it hasn't had the level of popularity we were hoping for. Based on participation and feedback, we will continue to support PvP, but not at the expense of PvE content. We will look at more ways to make PvP more accessible for players in the future.



Can you expand on this?



As a general rule, people don't like standing in the rain.
If, however, you put up a stall giving away free money, people will queue up in the rain for that free money.
Statistics being what they are, one could then claim that people like queueing in the rain, when in fact most (because there will be a minority of people who do actually like standing in the rain) really don't like it one bit, but they like free money.

The queueing in the rain, in this analogy is of course PvP.
The money is things such as having Leo be able to craft possibly the most OP CI mod for PvE, etc, which cannot be gotten any other way, but, it can.

Count me among those willing to "stand in the rain," if only long enough to do the daily quest. But I usually don't even bother with that because of the looooong queue time. I don't know what to do about it if people just aren't playing PvP. I mean, they could add AI controlled opponents for the daily quests, but then it wouldn't really be PvP anymore, would it?

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AbdulAlhazred wrote:

I love how much whining there is right now concerning the league merge and content being included. It makes me wonder how many of these people complaining about BL mods even played Nemesis.

Back in Nemesis herald of thunder and corrupted blood put the fear of Dominus into you. Similarly, chaos bond, otherworldly, and voidspawn packs are doing the same now. But... You don't really hear the large population complaining about herald of thunder or corrupted blood anymore, do you? That's because their spawn rate dropped off significantly. So will BL mod packs.

Anyone complaining now must be new. I've played in both temporary leagues now, and my only concern moving forward is that since Onslaught/Anarchy began the temporary leagues, SC has been getting all of the cool toys. HC seems shafted.

Rogue Exiles? Strongboxes? Shrines? Tormented Spirits? Every update brings something new and fresh!

Then there's hardcore... Nemesis was new. Invasion was new. Then Nemesis 2.0 (BL) and Invasion 2.0 (Beyond). I'm not saying BL and Beyond were bad. I played both. But the concepts (non uniques have new mods!/unique bosses to fight!) were not new.

Please, GGG, do something new for HC next 4 month league. As someone who plays almost entirely HC leagues (I dabbled in Torment purely to experience the spirits/try to get the challenge) I almost feel insulted. I get you guys want to keep the HC temporary league theme to dangerous "we want to kill you" content, but you can still do that while keeping things fresh!

Looking forward to being surprised for the next one, which will hopefully release with Act 4.

TL;DR:

Spoiler

Anyone bitching about BL content merge never played Nemesis.

It's kay you new too. Stupid generalization. Newfish you awesome!

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Based on participation and feedback, we will continue to support PvP, but not at the expense of PvE content.

This couldn't have made me happier.

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lizzipoos wrote:

You guys thought bloodlines were a solid addition to blue packs? What...

Most of the mods are horrible. There's a few that are okay, Chaos bond, pulseblood, keepers of the trove (and even this one is kinda meh) and the rime one. The others are just a huge pain in the butt, a waste of time and just horrible.

Please, just do the game a favor and don't add any of them to the base game. Just pretend bloodlines never happened and move on from it.

100% this.

I can't think of bigger nerf to fun than adding Bloodlines to the core game. You see a bloodlines pack, you think "OMG, not this shit again (roll eyes)".

In the hopes of this somehow reaching GGG:

-Spirits are terribly annoying to deal with and can often force you into provoking heavy desync (running through mob packs). Yeah, quartz flasks are cool, I know, but this is not a shepherding game. Once they meet a wall they are uncontrollable ("oh shit, there's a bump in this straight wall, let me run right back through that guy who is attacking me"). Builds need to be tailored to deal with them, which was fine in torment, but it'll make for an overall very frustrating experience outside of there.

I hate having to say it again, but spirits just highlight desync like nothing else. And that's not a part of the game you want to highlight.

-Bloodlines in general had the tendency to boil down to artificially slowing clearspeed to a halt. In particular, it introduced a lot of invulnerable, uninteractable things with timings (obelisks, phylacteral, guardian, necrovigil, even the herald ground explosions or otherworldly) that were cool to deal with the first few times, but just became strictly boring/annoying at some point. It is substantially different from nemesis in that regard: In both cases, it paid off to keep an eye out what you were fighting. But in Nemesis, dealing with things didn't involve standing/running around, waiting for things to happen or mobs to move. Bloodlines involves more positioning, but you forced it too much with some mods. Combined with the fact that you only had to deal with one target in nemesis while bloodlines involves "managing" an entire pack (herding, separating, kiting, finding)... That's not what I'm here for. I'm here for building cool characters, and nothing in bloodlines really interacts with that.


Writing this post made me realize how much of a tedium it'd be for me to finish the 3x85 challenge and how much I'm not looking forward to it. My memories of both leagues (and their specialties) are overshadowed by the frustration experienced, and that's the first thing that comes to mind when contemplating to play them.

Ok, enough rambling.

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Harnzy wrote:

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Fenral wrote:

I strongly dislike the idea behind nemesis mods or bloodlines mods. Slapping random abilities onto random monsters is just RNG. It adds nothing meaningful or substantial, and is honestly one of the things I disliked most about diablo 3 rare/champion monsters.

I don't think it has any place in this game outside of a map mod or zana mod.

So you just want magic/rare packs to be the same as trash mobs?

No, I want them to be stronger versions of their trash mob bases with their existing abilities enhanced.

What I don't want are existing bases to become meaningless on magic/rare monsters compared to the random abilities those mobs are given.

The abilities should enhance the monster, the monster should not be enhancing the abilities. Unfortunately, that's exactly what nemesis and bloodlines does.

For the love of the PoE future you gotta change some of the bloodlines mods or else it will be even more intolerable for melee players please go back to the drawing table and make balanced mods for them that and change some of them to only affect ranged players so it's somewhat balanced as it's now its honestly not worth adding to the game.

And fix P-link properly so if a mob from the pack gets to far from the pack it will lose the invulnerability.

Anything that slows down gameplay = bad.

I mean if you are so bent on the idea of slowing down the game why not just set the gamespeed to 0.5 or 0.8 and sell that as a "new and unforgiving challenge", I'm sure the credulous will love you for it.