What's Being Kept from Torment/Bloodlines?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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ZarlakRC wrote:

This is my first league so no experience with the previous ones.

ah ok, fair play. Yeah the deal with old items, you basically always keep them, even if they decide an item is overpowered and they nerf the crap out of it, you will still have the item and in 99% of cases your item will be unchanged, meaning you get to keep the pre nerf, overpowered version of the item. the general term for these is 'legacy' items. Example Kaoms Heart chest armour used to give 1000 life, now its nerfed down to 500 life, but all the Kaoms dropped before the nerf still have 1000 life in standard and standard hardcore, and as a result of not being able to drop any more the ones still in circulation are worth huge amounts.

They are very keen to not to harm players who have worked hard for an item and treasure it. One of the big bonuses of playing leagues is that the league only items that can only drop during that time frame often become very valuable as time goes on after that league ends. You can still find them using the zana map mods so the circulation of the old items is not as bad as it used to be, but they are still extremely rare. I wish I had a scolds hat from torment, I would imagine if I want to get one a year from now i will probably be looking at, 30, maybe even 40+ exalts. There is currently 1 Scold's for sale in standard league, presumably found/chanced in the Torment map mod in Bloodlines league and then ripped to Standard softcore, it is priced at 400 exalts. Its over priced, probably wont sell for that, but it gives you an idea of what scarcity can do to the price of a powerful piece.

Even gear that just looks cool for a skin like that sword I linked, I found that in Beyond hardcore temp league, I also bought a sceptre there called "the dark seer" for a couple of chaos, both items are usually just used for skins I think, theyre not even powerful items like a Scolds, and both now start at 4 exalts each on Standard league despite Beyond being a very popular map mod for players to run. Expect the Torment map mod to be a rarely used thing and that hat to be worth significantly more in 6 months time, don't be too quick to sell it.

I won't be selling it, it's integral to my build haha but thanks, that was really helpful!

Torment in the normal game is fine, especially if the AI is improved. Bloodlines on the other hand isn't, while I enjoyed Bloodlines as a temp league thing I don't think it's fitting for the normal game, at least not without changes.

Necro: This one should be changed to a 95-99% damage reduction, this way it doesn't matter how much room you got to kill them nor does it force you to carry a skill to remove corpses with (which is just a really annoying solution to the problem).

P-link: I'm sorry, I know some devs like it, but it's horrible in practice. In theory it's great but due to how monsters move away from you when all spots are taken around you and how some packs gets divided between rooms and so on it's just not good.

From a more personal view playing incinerate, birdmen are annoying already...P-link birdmen made me want to close the game, huddle up in the corner and start to cut my self. (how that combo is even allowed is beyond me)


This is not my main concern though with temp league mechanics being introduced the the core game, unique maps is.

I have been killed faster than any human reaction time by double stacked extra damage corrupting blood in a Poorjoy's. Nothing could have saved me besides an option that allows us to show the closest rare monster at the top of the screen at all times.

Oba's with P-link, Necro and a couple of cult of elements to chill you and you won't make the timer...a timer I assume was set without such additions in mind. What's even worse to ponder here is an abaxoth pack in the reward room that spawns Abaxoth, for like 99% of all builds that would be impossible.

So if you are going though with this please for the love of RNGesus remove these additions from unique maps and let them be as they were originally designed.


As a side not I have to say I really do miss oldschool docks as well, a place where you could go and just run around and MF with little to no care in the world as long as you had some very basic defenses covered. We're getting further and further away from that in every zone and map.

Don't get me wrong I don't want the game as a whole to be that way but it would be nice if there was at least one or two good pre-map zones that was as good as old docks for this purpose.

Please keep Chest spawn rates high. Coming across one of those is so satisfying and exciting. Potential lootsplosion!

I'm confused GGG. Do you want anyone to play the Standard/Harcore permanent leagues??? It really doesn't seem like it.

I'm torn. I really want to play standard from now on because I don't play enough to get my masters, or at least Elreon, to level 8 in a 3 month league. Yet I want to have access to the legacy / league only uniques which make their way into standard but cost way way more once they become legacy. I may be able to afford a legacy Scolds in Standard say after 6 months or maybe even a year of playing, maybe. I still have about 120ex of equipment to buy first though for my current level 90 character (because I haven't been able to craft or find an upgrade since about level 60), so probably not.

My initial question was pretty much rhetorical. GGG, you obviously want us to play the leagues over standard or you wouldn't make legacy uniques, ever. Why? The leagues aren't the core game. Very, very confused and put off quite frankly, once again.

This might not be a huge issue if the freaking Zana mods didn't cost so much but there is no way I can pay that kind of currency for a minuscule chance to get one particular high level unique. I'm not sure you guys have thought this through. I've never touched Diablo but from what I'm hearing its a pretty damn good game. Have to try it out soon I guess.

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ZarlakRC wrote:

I won't be selling it, it's integral to my build haha but thanks, that was really helpful!

Hmmm, you are new, yes.

While Snorkle is correct that your item will remain and even be a (probable) un-nerfed legacy version should there be a nerf to the item at some point; your build is not so protected. Don't expect a build to ever last.

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greatwhitepine wrote:

I'm confused GGG. Do you want anyone to play the Standard/Harcore permanent leagues???

This only just dawned on you?

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greatwhitepine wrote:

GGG, you obviously want us to play the leagues over standard or you wouldn't make legacy uniques, ever. Why? The leagues aren't the core game.

Actually, they are.

I made this mistake before, when GGG refer to 'the core game' I automatically thought of permanent leagues. Someone corrected me. Each new temp league is 'the core game' + whatever that league is 'testing' for the future core game.

While this creates the strangest of scenarios where the core game is always also a test server and there never will be a tested, finalised actual core game running without the test component, even though the permanent leagues are without the test component, they are dump leagues, legacy leagues, purposely ruined leagues bereft of any GGG care.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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greatwhitepine wrote:

GGG, you obviously want us to play the leagues over standard or you wouldn't make legacy uniques, ever. Why? The leagues aren't the core game.

Actually, they are.

I made this mistake before, when GGG refer to 'the core game' I automatically thought of permanent leagues. Someone corrected me. Each new temp league is 'the core game' + whatever that league is 'testing' for the future core game.

While this creates the strangest of scenarios where the core game is always also a test server and there never will be a tested, finalised actual core game running without the test component, even though the permanent leagues are without the test component, they are dump leagues, legacy leagues, purposely ruined leagues bereft of any GGG care.

If you are correct then GGG is not using the proper terminology which has been in use consistently since I started 1.5 years ago. Correct them, not me :-)

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Qarl wrote:

Challenge leagues (like Torment/Bloodlines) are a great place to test out new game mechanics while receiving plenty of feedback and data about how players interact with them. When challenge leagues end, we have to choose what parts of these new features to roll into the core game. Some systems like Rogue Exiles (Anarchy) and Shrines (Domination) came from challenge leagues in this way.

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greatwhitepine wrote:

If you are correct then GGG is not using the proper terminology which has been in use consistently since I started 1.5 years ago. Correct them, not me :-)

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Qarl wrote:

Challenge leagues (like Torment/Bloodlines) are a great place to test out new game mechanics while receiving plenty of feedback and data about how players interact with them. When challenge leagues end, we have to choose what parts of these new features to roll into the core game. Some systems like Rogue Exiles (Anarchy) and Shrines (Domination) came from challenge leagues in this way.

That quote doesn't challenge anything I wrote.

They are not talking about 'rolling over into standard/HC' (as you read it, and I once did). They are talking about rolling over into what becomes the core game. That 'core game' is then used in future leagues, sure, it is used in standard and HC, too. But the point is, they don't give a shit about them, they give fucktons of shits about the temp leagues.

You can argue I'm wrong, that permanent leagues are the core game. You could be right and I wrong. But ONLY if you were to say they are the core game along with temp leagues.

But that would not change this...

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greatwhitepine wrote:

GGG, you obviously want us to play the leagues over standard or you wouldn't make legacy uniques, ever. Why? The leagues aren't the core game.

...being incorrect.

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The challenge leagues are not part of the core game.

Standard league is also not part of the core game. Hardcore, too, is not part of the core game. Nothing at all can be part of the core game! Because "core game" is not "challenge leagues" or "standard" or "hardcore". It is just a name for a ruleset. And this ruleset is used in every league - both in sc/hc and challenge leagues. The only difference that there are additional rules in CL, but it is only additions, the base ruleset is unchanged, therefore they are "core game" too.

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Qarl wrote:

Tormented Spirits are an interesting game element to add to areas. While there’s more we can improve with their AI, the additional challenge and item drops have been popular. We’ll be rolling them into the core game, though at a lower spawn rate than they currently have.

Lower? Can be lower? Lower than "close to zero" is "almost zero" or alredy "zero"?

i am verry happy that you recognice, that pvp has not so much followers.

They make big noise, but i think most people dont like pvp so much.

And great that pve come back to focus.