Should you receive points on death for Signature Races?

I listened to the most recent podcast and found it interesting that Helmannn thinks we should receive points even if we die in signature races, stating that you cant set records unless you really go extra ham yolo. the other point (if i remember correctly) was that other races like champs and endless ledge offer greater pay off within shorter period of time even if you die which seems unfair.

but isnt the point that you have to manage the yolo? not sure that i agree with helmannn on this. it's hard to take a definitive stance, games like chess also award points on loss to account for "experience" gained but that is a long term rating, different than a seasonal competition and in scope.

-HeaT

Given the general direction toward complete casualization that not only racing, but the entire game is taking, I'm sure this will end up being the case sooner or later, for all races.

In my opinion, nothing except maybe one race type (such as DC or ledge) should award points on death.

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boof wrote:

In my opinion, nothing except maybe one race type (such as DC or ledge) should award points on death.

+1

I feel the same way. If it's about records anyways then as long as that counts when you die I feel the points don't matter too much. I mean, you play more aggressive for a better time, cutting seconds in fights making it dangerously close or play passive for guaranteed safety and points. Risk / reward factor.

I feel like if you really wanted to manage yolo and balance risk/reward you should just make dead character records not count.

I think the points thing is more a separate issue where if you are going to spend time doing something but screw up and die you might as well get something for it. Sure points for dying would bring in more casual racers but how does that affect top end racers? The top of the ladder will probably look pretty much the same but over time more people racing consistently will slowly boost competition as a whole as "casual" players start to get better and better.

Dead characters in all races should receive level threshold points, similar to how they already receive quest points, but shouldnt receive class/1st placement points/prizes or be awarded positions on the signature boards.

No you shouldn't. The whole point of losing points on death is specifically so you can't yolo: you have to balance survival with speed and that's where strategy comes in.

IMO you should get points in ALL races even if you rip.

If you want to bring more people into racing, maybe you should throw them some bones, to have them actually try to improve instead of farming safe zones and being afraid of hitting next level point bracket etc.

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Hemmingfish wrote:

No you shouldn't. The whole point of losing points on death is specifically so you can't yolo: you have to balance survival with speed and that's where strategy comes in.

This was true in closed beta and into s1 maybe some of s2.

But with so many races, and so many sigs, that is no longer possible. In the end, everyone is punished with the current system no matter your skill level.

The ONLY people not punished are the one or two people who are farming points hardcore who aren't even trying to win races, these people reap the rewards at all ends of the system. People who are inexperienced at racing are punished for dying or trying to improve. People at the top end going for records and great runs are punished when a one off event kills them, even in the last 2 minutes of a race.

If you got points for level, literally nothing would change on the ladder since some people could just stop racing 3-4 races earlier in a season at the 500 or 1000 threshold, and top races would not longer be annoyed as shit pushing in a sig race if they die.

Frankly I'm confused how its still 1000 points for the top reward, the shortening of the seasons meant the reward shoulve probably gone to 800-900, but it unfortunately was not examined in the way it should have been, by racers in the know.

I think the real issue is that the point system in general is deeply flawed. Season points don't actually reflect skill/effort. A point system that encourages farming safe zones rather than actually improving and taking risks can never be a real competitive metric no matter what you do.

Put simply, the current point system actively encourages players to "race" slower than they are capable of, when ideally the ladder and point system should encourage players to improve and excel at the game.

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SlixSC wrote:

I think the real issue is that the point system in general is deeply flawed. Season points don't actually reflect skill/effort. A point system that encourages farming safe zones rather than actually improving and taking risks can never be a real competitive metric no matter what you do.

Put simply, the current point system actively encourages players to "race" slower than they are capable of, when ideally the ladder and point system should encourage players to improve and excel at the game.

Good post, concise and 100% accurate.

I think the issue is that ggg doesnt see racing as an entirely or even primarily competitive endeavour. The majority of races are rng-dominated (1 hour or less), cheat-friendly (not fixed seed) and not challenging (aka vanilla). Racing has shifted from being fairly competitively oriented (intentionally or otherwise) during cb to being whats essentially an alternate form of grinding for semi or non competitive players who are bored or burnt out of the main game and want a change of pace, and with a similarly grindy points/rewards system to match.

Edit: And pvp leagues turned out to have even more of a grind > skill bias than race leagues, which should be a strong indication of where racing is headed in the foreseeable future.