[2.4] The Dy'Ness Tank

Hi thats rly good build im trying it with incinerate skill atm and its pretty epic , im wondering why you dont use scepters with elem dmg and spell dmg on it. Doryani lacking elem dmg dunno if it matters or not....

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stury wrote:

Hi thats rly good build im trying it with incinerate skill atm and its pretty epic , im wondering why you dont use scepters with elem dmg and spell dmg on it. Doryani lacking elem dmg dunno if it matters or not....

As a guess, because Doryani's Catalyst brings a lot of nice things for this tank:

* L20 Elemental Proliferation on L21 CwDT on L21 Molten Shell and L21 Arctic Breath is a pretty nasty combination
* 100% elemental damage and 9% cast speed isn't too shabby
* high physical damage (and an attack speed boost) has got to be nice when needing to gain some mana by hitting enemies and taking advantage of the 2% mana leech (from ring) to be able to start casting again, which is occasionally necessary due to Shavronne's Revelation stopping mana regeneration. (Well, either you hit stuff or you unequip the ring - I know which of these options I'd find most handy in the thick of combat).

Greetings!

Nice to know that life recovery also applies to life regen. Hmm... with a base rate of 3100 per second, a 15% bonus would mean an additional 465 per second... seems like I could really break something... *smiles evilly*

Why Doryani's? In addition to the reasons Pi2rEpsilon mentioned.
-It is a scepter.
-It has a scepter bonus of 10% elemental damage.
-The second attribute from the bottom, the +100% elemental damage, it applies to every spell, including all of the CWDT spells.
-The 36% Global Crit Strike Chance is nice.
-I was running Ghost Reaver for awhile, and the 1% elemental leech was a nice bonus.

If you have the chance, you really should give it a shot. I see them on poe.trade for as low as 4 ex for a 100% elemental damage, the only mod I cared about when I bought it.

~Dy'Ness

A question, Dy'Ness: Why use the Enhance gem?

Before you answer, let me make clear that I am aware that Enhance is a strong gem for Firestorm. With a level 3 Enhance giving +16% quality, your q20 Firestorm will drop a flaming ball every 0.064 seconds rather than every 0.08 seconds, which means that Firestorm will drop either 20 or 21 balls in its duration (1.3/0.064 = 20.3125) rather than 16 or 17(1.3/0.08 = 16.25). (I don't know how it deals with the fractions, as I haven't bothered to count the balls).

This means that, at best, the Enhance gem increases your damage output per Firestorm by (21/16)-1 = 31.25% more damage, and if as I suspect fractional balls are not awarded, then by (20/16)-1 = 25% more damage. This is good. Even if it is "only" an effective 25% more multiplier on total damage, few gems beat that apart from Spell Echo.

Wait a minute....

Take a look at the Increased Duration gem. A q20l20 Increased Duration gives +74% skill effect duration. Since you have 0% skill effect duration from passives or equipment, this means that using this gem instead of the Enhance gem will give the Firestorm 74% more time to drop balls, so over the duration (1.3s*1.74 = 2.262s) that means Firestorm will drop either 28 or 29 balls (2.262/0.08 = 28.275 balls).

So if it was a question of casting one Firestorm and measuring the dps, then Enhance would come out the winner, since Increased Duration, while dealing much more damage in total over its Firestorm's duration, does not increase the dps of the individual Firestorm.

But that's not the normal scenario. Normally one chaincasts Firestorms for several seconds until everything is dead, for many seconds in case of bosses, and what matters is how much damage the stack of Firestorms deal.

So I don't get it. Unless there's something I've overlooked, the Enhance gem, highly desirable though it is for Firestorm, is greatly inferior to an Increased Duration gem in your situation for the purposes of damagedealing.

(Best would of course be to use both, but that would take a 7L given your other commitments.)



To illustrate the dps stacking. Firestorm has a base cast time of 1.0s and as far as I can see you have 9% cast speed and 70% more cast speed, which should result result in a cast time of 0.54s.

Look at how it changes over time, format is
TIME nOfActiveFirestorms Event:

Without Increased Duration
0.00 1 First starts
0.54 2 Second starts
1.08 3 Third starts
1.30 2 First finishes
1.62 3 Fourth starts
1.84 2 Second finishes
2.16 3 fifth starts
2.38 2 Third finishes
2.70 3 Sixth starts
2.92 2 Fourth finishes
3.24 3 Seventh starts


With Increased Duration
0.00 1 First starts
0.54 2 Second starts
1.08 3 Third starts
1.62 4 Fourth starts
2.16 5 Fifth starts
2.26 4 First finishes
2.70 5 Sixth starts
2.80 4 Second finishes
3.24 5 Seventh starts

Let D be the DPS of a single 5L Firestorm without the Enhance/Increased Endurance.

At any time after the first 0.54s the Enhance version will have 2 or 3 Firestorms dealing damage with 25% more damage each, for a total dps of between 2.5D and 3.375D.

At any time after the first 1.62s the Increased Duration version will have 4 or 5 Firestorms working, so the total dps is between 4D and 5D.

Greetings!

Very valid points! Enhance is not the best gem for a PvE setup and yes Increased Duration is AMAZING on Firestorm.

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If you replace the Enhance with a lvl 4 Empower, the damage will go to 1200 per fireball. However, you lose the ability to switch enhance with a reduced block chance for PVP.

The Block Chance Reduction is how this setup deals with those nasty block tanks. Enhance was the PvE side of being able to support this.

Currently, I recolored and am running a pure PvE setup again.

I will have to test and see how well the lvl 4 Empower stacks up against my 20/23 Inc Duration.

The PvE Setup in current use is listed below.


Edit: And the results are in. For pure sustained damage, Increased Duration wins out, hands down. This is assuming you are actually hitting something that can take the damage. Clearing up to the boss however, Empower wins out.

Before Spell Echo, I was using Increased Duration. Spell Echo replaced my Increased Duration slot. Based on mana, Increased Duration raises the Firestorm cost from 80 to 90. So... if it misses the first target, I get to swing my scepter around as I do not have enough mana for a second cast. Easy enough to correct by switching around a passive or two, but outside of the boss... I see no need at this moment in time. I will test it against a few more, but if the boss moves out of the cast...

~Dy'Ness

Spell levels past 20 typically gain around 9% damage per level (but check it to be sure it also holds for Firestorm), so a level 4 Empower should be roughly a (1.09^3)-1 ~30% more modifier, roughly the same as your level 3 Enhance and significantly worse for sustained damage dealing than Inc. Duration.

I see you prefer elem dmg over spell dmg , is it better? Also whanted to ask abouth spell block passive wheel on witch start area, do you think its gonna work since also give 40 % ES boost on shild.

Stury,

Neither damage type is better, it all depends on which damage types you use and in which proportion to each other.

Spell damage - affects anything classed as a spell regardless of damage type.
Elemental damage - affects anything that does fire, cold, or electricity damage.
Fire damage - affects anything that does fire damage.

(As an example, if I have a build that does a LOT of fire spell damage and a little chaos spell and lightning spell damage, then 10% spell damage is better than 10% elemental damage is better than 10% fire damage, but 18% fire damage is probably better than both 10% spell damage. It all depends on the size of the nodes and the proportion of the damage type's base damage in the build relative to each other, when one uses several damage types.)

Since the Dy'ness tank only deals fire damage, Spell, Elemental, and Fire damage modifiers are equally good and all that matters is how many percentage each node increase the damage - and how many nodes extra you have to pay to be able to take them in the first place.

With regards to the Shield nodes boosting ES (whether the increased ES from Shield in the Witch area or the increased defenses from Shield in Marauder area), note that is an additive increase to the increased maximum energy shield modifier on the Shield, not a multiplicative modifier on the ES from the shield.

Thus taking a 40% Shield defense node is equivalent to taking eight 5% ES nodes that only affect the Shield, which is in a really bad deal once you start counting the number of nodes it takes to get there in the first place. You are much, much better off just using those points on normal maximum ES nodes that affect all your sources of ES from gear and Discipline aura.

im 84 lvl now and its going great theres no boss that can kill me on maps if i pay atenntion but with this build sometimes i get overconfident, btw can i get mana passives instead of life at beggining of tree?

Hmm a little curious... If you could have any gear you wanted for this build, what would your gear be?
Thanks in advance!